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You simply have not been paying attention. CLE has exploded since about roughly 2009. Now you see cranes over COL? We've had cranes over CLE for years now. I wish I could find the quote about it, but I know I won't. Your silly "eye test" is seriously flawed...
CLE is the only place in Ohio I would live. When you grow up on a great lake, no silly river will do.
CLE is, and has been, rocking.
Agree with Jbeechuck though.
Can't we celebrate what makes all 3 C's great and stop trying to put each other down or pick "the best"? We all have strengths and weaknesses...
Cleveland's development, although starting to pick up a little, is no match for the boom going on in Columbus currently. Over the Holidays I drove through both cities and just by the "eye test" you could see how much more is being developed in Columbus. I saw multiple cranes in Columbus starting all the way near Gemini through Downtown...even little Sunbury on the far North Side seems to be building up with the new Tanger Outlets and housing subdivisions.
I am originally from Cleveland, and it is sad to see how slow the growth has been there and also within it's suburbs, compared to Columbus, Pittsburgh, and Cincinnati. If I had to move back to Ohio, I would not choose Cleveland, it would either be Cincinnati or Columbus for many reasons.
Per capita personal income in the Cleveland MSA is $47,783, compared to $47,254 in the Cincinnati MSA and $46,750 in the Columbus MSA. It is $31,377 in the Pittsburgh MSA (I'm very surprised by this low number).
Cleveland's Greater University Circle district is one of the very best cultural districts in the U.S., and is much better than any comparable cultural district in any of the other three cities. It's the home of the highest ranked national university in Ohio, is a world-renown medical center and University Circle is dynamically growing economic district.
Downtown Cleveland the home of three major professional sports franchises and venues (as well as AHL hockey and arena football franchises), has by far the best theater district among the four cities mentioned, Ohio's tallest skyscrapers, the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, and a rapidly growing residential base, likely now over 15,000.
Across the Cuyahoga River from downtown, connected by the Red Line rail rapid and several bus routes, is Ohio City's Market District, featuring the nationally acclaimed West Side Market.
Compared to your other three preferred cities, Lake Erie offers Cleveland a magnificent setting, an international port, and great recreational opportunities.
And Cleveland just hosted the Republican National Convention to great acclaim.
An old, rehashed subject. Especially over the past 60 years, Columbus has been a the beneficiary of the other 2 C's economic productivity via tax redistribution. Its 2 largest employers are state government and the largest taxpayer funded university in the country. Combine that with the forced annexation, the 'growth' model is quite evident. Even though there are a few on this board who refuse to acknowledge it, Columbus enjoys a large, publicly funded economic advantage that most other cities do not.
I think Clevelanders have been making this same tired argument for 60 years. God forbid they admit that their city leaders made huge mistakes that led them down the path of long-term decline. Columbus wasn't even in the rearview mirror compared to Cleveland in 1950 (Cleveland was 3x larger), and yet it was still the capital with OSU then. Columbus having those things didn't seem to stop it from being far down in 3rd place through the first half of the 20th century. Columbus' leaders were very smart to annex. It allowed a growing tax base during the lean years of 1960-1990, when city population growth nationwide was largely negative, including in Columbus' core. It gave the perception of a thriving city at a time when cities were largely out of favor to the suburbs. Cleveland had immense advantages over Columbus for most of their existences, and frankly, Cleveland's leaders squandered those advantages. They put all of their eggs into one economic basket and never were forward-thinking enough to diversify and prepare for a future when American manufacturing wasn't going to reign supreme. It's not like it happened overnight. It happened slowly over decades. Instead of working to strengthen the important basics to shore up the local economy, its leaders always seemed to go for the big, flashy "next big thing" to save the city. The fact that NEO abandoned its Democratic history to hand the state over to that charlatan Trump showed that many blue collar workers simply haven't learned a hard truth- that the golden age of manufacturing isn't coming back. The truth is that Cleveland's fate was never a sure thing. It didn't have to lose 2/3rds of its population, and it's certainly not Columbus' fault that it did. So you guys can continue to whine about Columbus, but it's really not the problem. It never was. Cleveland is a classic case of destruction by its own hand.
Now, Cleveland finally seems to be focusing more on the basics, like rebuilding its downtown and some of the surrounding urban neighborhoods. It had the strongest downtown population growth rate of all the 3-Cs during the 2000s. These are good things, and I think they will continue so long as its leaders don't get in their own way once again.
BTW, Columbus is growing faster now than at any point in its history, and yet it has the slowest annexation rate since the 1930s. It no longer grows through the addition of suburban land. This belief has been outdated since the early 1990s, actually.
Cleveland's development, although starting to pick up a little, is no match for the boom going on in Columbus currently. Over the Holidays I drove through both cities and just by the "eye test" you could see how much more is being developed in Columbus. I saw multiple cranes in Columbus starting all the way near Gemini through Downtown...even little Sunbury on the far North Side seems to be building up with the new Tanger Outlets and housing subdivisions.
I am originally from Cleveland, and it is sad to see how slow the growth has been there and also within it's suburbs, compared to Columbus, Pittsburgh, and Cincinnati. If I had to move back to Ohio, I would not choose Cleveland, it would either be Cincinnati or Columbus for many reasons.
Cincinnati is doing pretty well. It has fairly strong job growth and its population is rebounding. While Cleveland's problems are much worse than Cincinnati's ever were, Cleveland should be taking lessons from a formerly declining city rather than worrying about what Columbus is doing.
BTW, I don't really think far-flung suburban growth is necessarily a sign of overall city health. Even Detroit has relatively stable/slowly growing suburbs. Luckily, Columbus itself is thriving.
The 3 Cs are doing well, including Cleveland which is starting to and has been making a comeback. As a whole, the state of Ohio is definately doing better than TSUN
Cincinnati is doing pretty well. It has fairly strong job growth and its population is rebounding. While Cleveland's problems are much worse than Cincinnati's ever were, Cleveland should be taking lessons from a formerly declining city rather than worrying about what Columbus is doing.
When legislators redistribute resources from one area of the state to another area, disadvantaged areas would be fools not to be concerned.
E.g., although you repeatedly minimize it, the leveraging of the Ohio Turnpike and its immense negative impact on northern Ohio's economy is the most glaring example of such a redistribution. I would argue that this is THE massive economic problem facing northern Ohio, becoming more pronounced each year as tolls are increased along the Republican toll road through northern Ohio and Indiana.
Greater Cleveland has been a massive donor to other areas of the state for over a century. This is partially because rural, and now suburban, legislators have stacked the deck against urban areas, also disadvantaging Columbus and Cincinnati. This is most pronounced in funding for roads, but also in local government fund and mass transit funding cutbacks under Kasich and the Republicans. The rise in municipal income taxes by 25 percent in Columbus, and now Cleveland, greatly necessitated by Ohio's slashing of local government funds, will not benefit the economies of those cities in the long run.
Ohio Republicans are not only massively interested in regressive tax systems to benefit the wealthy, they also are interested in diverting disproportionate resources to rural and suburban areas, as seen in the reforms to the local government funds, which disproportionately impacted cities compared to townships.
A big problem in Cleveland is that its media monopolies are Republican-controlled. This was most obvious in the Plain Dealer's hatchet attack on Ed Fitzgerald, even though he had been an accomplished Cuyahoga County Administrator, never acknowledged by the Plain Dealer until after the election.
The Plain Dealer also has shockingly supported the leveraging of the Ohio Turnpike by Kasich and the Republicans. I've never once seen an article in the PD or on cleveland.com analyzing the clearly deleterious effect of the relatively massive tolls on the Ohio Turnpike/Indiana Toll Road versus the absence of tolls on the I-70/I-65 corridor.
Also, the city of Cleveland's problems may be worse than those of the city of Cincinnati, but I see no basis for saying that Greater Cleveland's problems are worse, let alone much worse, than those in Cincinnati, except for the looming consequences of the Republican toll road. The marginalization of northern Ohio's industrial economy by Ohio's Republicans will negatively impact all of Ohio in the long run, as northern Ohio's advantages in water resources, Great Lakes ports, and once-highly skilled human capital will be trashed.
I don't think many Greater Clevelanders worry about anything in Columbus, let alone points further south.
Obviously, given the biases of the Plain Dealer and cleveland.com, I don't see how many Clevelanders would even be aware of how they are being disadvantaged, and, as noted, the disastrous legislation hasn't been particularly advanced to my knowledge by Columbus politicians.
Personally, I wish Columbus, Cincinnati, and the rest of Ohio all of the prosperity that they can muster.
What offends me and many others across the state, is the ridiculous mantra posited by you and other Columbus advocates that Columbus has recognized no significant economic advantage from the giant multiplier effect, acknowledged by economists, investors, developers, etc. to benefit state capitals across the U.S., and certainly Washington as the federal capital. It's patent ridiculousness on your part that diminishes my respect for you.
I think Clevelanders have been making this same tired argument for 60 years. God forbid they admit that their city leaders made huge mistakes that led them down the path of long-term decline. Columbus wasn't even in the rearview mirror compared to Cleveland in 1950 (Cleveland was 3x larger), and yet it was still the capital with OSU then. Columbus having those things didn't seem to stop it from being far down in 3rd place through the first half of the 20th century. Columbus' leaders were very smart to annex. It allowed a growing tax base during the lean years of 1960-1990, when city population growth nationwide was largely negative, including in Columbus' core. It gave the perception of a thriving city at a time when cities were largely out of favor to the suburbs. Cleveland had immense advantages over Columbus for most of their existences, and frankly, Cleveland's leaders squandered those advantages.
Your attack on Cleveland leaders is misplaced. Their only big mistake IMO was not waging regional political warfare on the Republicans, especially regarding the Republican Toll Road, the ongoing environmental destruction of Lake Erie by ag interests, and cutbacks in local government funds and mass transit funding, the latter negatively impacting all Ohio urban areas.
Cleveland political leaders had little ability to respond to the gross mistakes of our national political leaders in failing to adapt a competitive tax system, such as by adapting a value-added tax used by all of our national economic competitors, now acknowledged correctly by Trump and the Republicans as a major reason for the falling competitiveness of the U.S. in the age of globalization. Significant jobs could have been saved in U.S. manufacturing regions if we had adapted a competitive tax system even as we entered into free trade agreements. As much as I detest many of Trump's policies, he largely was elected by recognizing the pain and anger in manufacturing regions of the U.S.
I'm much more critical of Cleveland business leaders, often non-Clevelanders charged with running Cleveland corporate legacies, who made disastrous decisions that negatively impacted the Cleveland economy. The collapse of National City and its acquisition by PNC is a glaring example. I also remember when Addressograph Multigraph turned down Jobs and Wozniak when they sought funding for their Apple start-up, because Jobs and Wozniak recognized that the PC eventually would obliterate the AM business model. Too often, Cleveland business leaders made significant personal fortunes by simply selling their corporations.
It will be interesting to see how well the Columbus economy fares as mall-based retailing falters in the U.S., already negatively impacting the Columbus-centric Wexner empire. How many employees work for Wexner affiliated corporations in Greater Columbus?
As the State of Ohio implements digital technologies, there also could be a negative impact on the Columbus economy.
Frankly, I love all three cities. I'm from Cincinnati, have lived in Cleveland and frequently visit Columbus as my best friend lives there. They each have their own unique quirks, drawbacks, and draws. The beauty of Lake Erie is unparalleled by even the grand majesty of the Ohio river. The urban dynamic of High Street in Columbus is radically different than that found in Cincinnati's Over-the-Rhine, but both offer a wonderful and unique flavor of urban life. Cleveland's public transit is the obvious envy of the other two C's as well as having fabulous culture to experience. There is simply nothing like little Italy in the other two cities.
My general feeling regarding any of our cities or towns is this: Ohio Against the World.
An old, rehashed subject. Especially over the past 60 years, Columbus has been a the beneficiary of the other 2 C's economic productivity via tax redistribution. Its 2 largest employers are state government and the largest taxpayer funded university in the country. Combine that with the forced annexation, the 'growth' model is quite evident. Even though there are a few on this board who refuse to acknowledge it, Columbus enjoys a large, publicly funded economic advantage that most other cities do not.
I don't get why you're not allowed to say this. It's absurdly obvious why Columbus has been wealthier than Cleveland and Cincinnati. Why can't the Cbus boosters at least own that? It's not just Columbus though- all state capitals have this artificial advantage. Where I live, Boston, certainly does. Boston is shiny and nice, but go to Worcester or Springfield and ask them if they think Boston gets a little unfair treatment. It most definitely, without question, does!!
As Peregrine said, really the only place in Ohio I'd pack up and leave my current city to live at this point in my life (27 years old) is Cleveland.
But I have enjoyed following the Blue Jackets winning streak.
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