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Old 02-07-2018, 07:20 AM
 
9,581 posts, read 6,323,289 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbcmh81 View Post
This thread has entered stage 3, maybe 4.
With your deliberately snide comments, typically devoid of substance let alone substantiation, greatly contributing.

Last edited by WRnative; 02-07-2018 at 07:34 AM..
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Old 02-07-2018, 08:04 AM
 
Location: South Raleigh areas
5,174 posts, read 3,770,370 times
Reputation: 5752
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clever nickname here View Post
The OP hasn't said what is important to them or field of work.
I did:

Quote:
Originally Posted by murksiderock View Post
Also, our consideration in moving to Ohio has little consideration for jobs. I have a very stable career in hospitality that pays pretty well, with excellent projected future earnings, benefits, 401(k). My fiance is thinking of switching careers, from hospitality to nursing or social service. We found out yesterday that we're pregnant with baby #2, so this will further play into where we wind up. As far as Ohio goes, I think Columbus seems like our best fit, but she really LOVES Cleveland and we both also want to check Cincinnati out. So our projected move is somewhere between 11/2019 to 5/2020, so we have time here to figure out everything the way we want it!
But just to elaborate, I prefer a vibrant, large city with year-round cultural offerings. I'm into sports, art shows, live independent music, parks, diverse shopping options, etc. Basically, I'm a "get out and do something" kinda guy. A city doesn't necessarily have to be the creme de la creme in all aspects. We currently live in Virginia Beach/Norfolk. There are things for us to do here, but the activity level, energy, and pulse of the city are wanting. I believe we'd get greater fulfillment in lieu if "things to do" away from here, and I think any of The Three would work for us here...

What may tip the scales in Columbus' favor for myself personally is the rate of its growth, both economically and in persons, as well as it's central location. On paper, Columbus appears to have the highest ceiling, but I'm not professing to be an expert. Also, I lived for two years in Upstate New York (Syracuse area/Albany), and I'm not sure I like the long-term prospects of a Cleveland winter. I also have zero attraction to Kentucky or anywhere on its border, so while these things definitely aren't deal breakers, as of right now, they place Columbus ahead of Cincy and Cleveland for said reasons...

Another big thing for both of us is raising our children in a diverse environment. We are black; the wife is biracially black, and we currently live in a neighborhood in Virginia Beach that is pretty good for racial and ethnic diversity:

https://censusreporter.org/profiles/...inia-beach-va/ (our block group)
https://censusreporter.org/profiles/...inia-beach-va/ (our census tract/greater neighborhood)

This neighborhood is flooded with diversity. Two blocks away is a small commercial strip that has a European grocer, Latino supermarket, Latino restaurant, Greek and Italian restaurants, black salonists, and the neighborhood convenience store. Our greater neighborhood (census tract) is a further reflection of that diversity. We'd like to at minimum mirror this level of diversity in Ohio, possibly even surpass it, so while it requires thoughtful digging, I'd love to see comparable neighborhood links in all of The Three. It will give us something to build off of and look towards when we make our return to Cleveland and visit the other two...

Again, on paper, the feeling right now is that Columbus does better than the other two here, but I'm not speaking that from expertise. As I said, I'm originally from California (Sacramento) and also grew up in Northern Virginia, so I'm used to a large range of ethnicities and races and I prefer that balance for my children...

Lastly, the wife-to-be does have this infatuation with the suburban dream and picket fence. So I'll take all offerings on the best suburbs in all three areas, for what we are looking fir, but I'll be honest. I'm a city guy, I have ZERO attraction to suburbs, and as evidenced by my links to where we currently live, prefer denser, more vibrant, inner city areas. She's tired of the inner-city style---we live in probably the most urban area of Va Beach city, which is great for here but for me still pales in scale if urbanity. So again, I'll take all advice for comparable neighborhoods in all three cities...

Ohio is a real possibility for us right now, probably around 40%, and is leading the list if other candidates we have on our list. So thank you everyone for the advice and references, even my good friend WRNative and his douchebaggery lol...
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Old 02-07-2018, 08:40 AM
 
Location: Cleveland, OH
9,822 posts, read 9,105,790 times
Reputation: 8821
Quote:
Originally Posted by murksiderock View Post
I did:



But just to elaborate, I prefer a vibrant, large city with year-round cultural offerings. I'm into sports, art shows, live independent music, parks, diverse shopping options, etc. Basically, I'm a "get out and do something" kinda guy. A city doesn't necessarily have to be the creme de la creme in all aspects. We currently live in Virginia Beach/Norfolk. There are things for us to do here, but the activity level, energy, and pulse of the city are wanting. I believe we'd get greater fulfillment in lieu if "things to do" away from here, and I think any of The Three would work for us here...

What may tip the scales in Columbus' favor for myself personally is the rate of its growth, both economically and in persons, as well as it's central location. On paper, Columbus appears to have the highest ceiling, but I'm not professing to be an expert. Also, I lived for two years in Upstate New York (Syracuse area/Albany), and I'm not sure I like the long-term prospects of a Cleveland winter. I also have zero attraction to Kentucky or anywhere on its border, so while these things definitely aren't deal breakers, as of right now, they place Columbus ahead of Cincy and Cleveland for said reasons...

Another big thing for both of us is raising our children in a diverse environment. We are black; the wife is biracially black, and we currently live in a neighborhood in Virginia Beach that is pretty good for racial and ethnic diversity:

https://censusreporter.org/profiles/...inia-beach-va/ (our block group)
https://censusreporter.org/profiles/...inia-beach-va/ (our census tract/greater neighborhood)

This neighborhood is flooded with diversity. Two blocks away is a small commercial strip that has a European grocer, Latino supermarket, Latino restaurant, Greek and Italian restaurants, black salonists, and the neighborhood convenience store. Our greater neighborhood (census tract) is a further reflection of that diversity. We'd like to at minimum mirror this level of diversity in Ohio, possibly even surpass it, so while it requires thoughtful digging, I'd love to see comparable neighborhood links in all of The Three. It will give us something to build off of and look towards when we make our return to Cleveland and visit the other two...

Again, on paper, the feeling right now is that Columbus does better than the other two here, but I'm not speaking that from expertise. As I said, I'm originally from California (Sacramento) and also grew up in Northern Virginia, so I'm used to a large range of ethnicities and races and I prefer that balance for my children...

Lastly, the wife-to-be does have this infatuation with the suburban dream and picket fence. So I'll take all offerings on the best suburbs in all three areas, for what we are looking fir, but I'll be honest. I'm a city guy, I have ZERO attraction to suburbs, and as evidenced by my links to where we currently live, prefer denser, more vibrant, inner city areas. She's tired of the inner-city style---we live in probably the most urban area of Va Beach city, which is great for here but for me still pales in scale if urbanity. So again, I'll take all advice for comparable neighborhoods in all three cities...

Ohio is a real possibility for us right now, probably around 40%, and is leading the list if other candidates we have on our list. So thank you everyone for the advice and references, even my good friend WRNative and his douchebaggery lol...
Just to point out though, a Syracuse winter is not similar at all to a Cleveland winter. I believe Syracuse would average around double the snow of Cleveland. Also, not sure what you mean by your Kentucky statement? Sounds rather ignorant.

Honestly, any of the C's fit your desires. "Diversity" is a pretty dumb thing to say you want, as it's so meaningless, imo (though to me when I see people who profess belief in "diversity" it typically means different food and the feeling of enlightenment that comes with sitting next to someone speaking a foreign language on a bus). But if you want the most black people, that's definitely Cleveland. The other "diversity" in Cleveland is going to be Slavs of various stripes, some Puerto Ricans in some sections. You may not like Cleveland for its strongly Eastern European background, which Virginia Beach does not have. Columbus will have more Somalis than basically anywhere else other than Minneapolis. Cincinnati is much more Germanic than the others.

So basically your post though is meaningless because your wife wants to live in a suburb. They all have nice suburbs.
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Old 02-07-2018, 09:00 AM
 
728 posts, read 580,623 times
Reputation: 852
Quote:
Originally Posted by WRnative View Post
You've nailed one reason the quality of life is higher in Cleveland than in Columbus. Cleveland proper, having lost over half of its population in just over half a century, yet still is the beneficiary of great industrial age fortunes controlled by very civic-minded families (even to this day), and has, unlike Columbus, the bones of a great city, whether measured by exceptional cultural institutions, mass transit, etc.

Whether Playhouse Square, old department stores, old bank building, or old office buildings, Cleveland has been one of the nation's leaders in converting great old buildings to new uses, often housing for its burgeoning downtown residential population.

As I've said repeatedly, I do worry about the Cleveland economy in coming years, until all of the Midwest begins to experience another great migration from the South resulting from the myriad impacts of climate change.

The Republican toll road (rising tolls on the Ohio Turnpike and Indiana Toll Road) is negating northern Ohio's natural manufacturing advantages.

And Cleveland, unlike Columbus, doesn't possess the massive multiplier effect that results from the inflow of funds to Ohio's capital city.

As an Ohioan, I do worry about the future of many leading retail and consumer products companies headquartered in Cincinnati and Columbus as the 21st retail market continues its evolution towards online merchandising. Sadly, Ohio's state government has financed Amazon's expansion in the state to the disadvantage of the state's existing retailers. Interestingly, this issue is much more under discussion in the Cincinnati forum than in the Columbus forum.
Likely do to the Amazon data centers already in Columbus and making Amazon's list of 20 for HQ2. I do not expect Columbus to land HQ2.
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Old 02-07-2018, 09:06 AM
 
Location: South Raleigh areas
5,174 posts, read 3,770,370 times
Reputation: 5752
Quote:
Originally Posted by bjimmy24 View Post
Just to point out though, a Syracuse winter is not similar at all to a Cleveland winter. I believe Syracuse would average around double the snow of Cleveland. Also, not sure what you mean by your Kentucky statement? Sounds rather ignorant.

Honestly, any of the C's fit your desires. "Diversity" is a pretty dumb thing to say you want, as it's so meaningless, imo (though to me when I see people who profess belief in "diversity" it typically means different food and the feeling of enlightenment that comes with sitting next to someone speaking a foreign language on a bus). But if you want the most black people, that's definitely Cleveland. The other "diversity" in Cleveland is going to be Slavs of various stripes, some Puerto Ricans in some sections. You may not like Cleveland for its strongly Eastern European background, which Virginia Beach does not have. Columbus will have more Somalis than basically anywhere else other than Minneapolis. Cincinnati is much more Germanic than the others.

So basically your post though is meaningless because your wife wants to live in a suburb. They all have nice suburbs.
So why even bother responding if my post is meaningless to you? It's addressed to people who have actual insight to provide...

Look, diversity may be meaningless to you, just make sure you qualify that with saying you're speaking for yourself with that sentiment. It isn't meaningless to me, and given the post was specifically about what matters to us (fiance and I), your lack of appreciation for diversity could have been kept to yourself. "Diversity" doesn't mean any of the things to us that you say it means to you and your circle, so again.....speak for yourself there...

"If I want(ed) the most black people", I would have said that, no? Very strange commentary on your part, borderline ignorant...and as for my comment about Kentucky, I have no attraction to it, it's influences, or proximity to it. Again, not sure how a post in which I'm responding to inquiries about my family's or mine own desires equals ignorant. I'll stop just short of calling your entire response "meaningless", but your response provided next to nothing of semblance and you definitely would've done better arguing with the man in your head...
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Old 02-07-2018, 09:15 AM
 
9,581 posts, read 6,323,289 times
Reputation: 5512
Given your diversity requirements, and your desire for an urban experience, and your wife's desire for a suburban experience, Shaker Hts. in Greater Cleveland may offer you the best of both worlds. Neighborhoods there run the gamut from largely black to mostly white, with many mixed neighborhoods in between. The schools are integrated, and are perceived to offer excellent educational opportunities, but the district has relatively more economically disadvantaged students than other school districts mentioned in this post; its school system may require a deep dig on your part, but it has among the highest expenditures/student in Ohio. SH is one of the most progressive communities in Ohio.

See especially post 3 in this thread:

//www.city-data.com/forum/cleve...cleveland.html

Regarding weather, post 14 in the above thread might provide considerable insight.

Only Greater Cleveland has a few suburbs where you could hop on a rail rapid and be downtown, within walking distance of all three pro sports venues and other attractions. SH offers the combination of a suburban, Garden City lifestyle, and especially diversity. It has two rail lines (generally less than 30 minute trips downtown), some relatively affordable neighborhoods, and good schools. It also has very high real estate taxes to support those schools, perhaps a greater concern with itemized deduction limitations in the new tax bill.

You can check racial diversity in Wikipedia articles.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaker...o#Demographics

Beachwood is another possibility. It's largely a Jewish community with a significant African-American population. It's a short drive from the Green Road Green Line rail rapid station, or even Blue Line stations in SH.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beachw...io#2010_census

Solon often is considered to have the best school system in Ohio and it has a diverse population. It does not have great mass transit connections, but does have great park access (South Chagrin Reservation of the Cleveland Metroparks).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solon,_Ohio#2010_census

Lakewood may be the most diverse West Side suburb. It's adjacent to Cleveland with good mass transit and schools.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lakewo...10_U.S._Census

I suspect all of these suburbs offer more diversity than any comparable Columbus suburbs, but I could be wrong. Bexley may be the most comparable.

You can check diversity and performance statistics for any given high school at greatschools.org. Also check the low income performance statistics, as in some of the following districts, many black students come from families that are not low income.

Here is Orange High School, one of the better high schools in Ohio and with a 23 percent black enrollment.

https://www.greatschools.org/ohio/pe...Race_ethnicity

Mayfield High School would be another possibility:

https://www.greatschools.org/ohio/cl...Race_ethnicity

https://www.greatschools.org/ohio/sh...Race_ethnicity

https://www.greatschools.org/ohio/so...Race_ethnicity

https://www.greatschools.org/ohio/be...Race_ethnicity

New Albany is another possibility in Greater Columbus, but my perception is that housing prices are relatively very high there. New Albany's leading citizen is Les Wexner, a major supporter of Republican politicians, but is relatively level-headed compared to some Republican bankrollers.

https://www.greatschools.org/ohio/ne...Race_ethnicity

http://fortune.com/2016/11/02/les-we...oman-emperors/

https://www.greatschools.org/ohio/wo...Race_ethnicity

I ignored your latest insult.

Last edited by WRnative; 02-07-2018 at 09:55 AM..
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Old 02-07-2018, 09:33 AM
 
Location: Cleveland, OH
9,822 posts, read 9,105,790 times
Reputation: 8821
Quote:
Originally Posted by murksiderock View Post
So why even bother responding if my post is meaningless to you? It's addressed to people who have actual insight to provide...

Look, diversity may be meaningless to you, just make sure you qualify that with saying you're speaking for yourself with that sentiment. It isn't meaningless to me, and given the post was specifically about what matters to us (fiance and I), your lack of appreciation for diversity could have been kept to yourself. "Diversity" doesn't mean any of the things to us that you say it means to you and your circle, so again.....speak for yourself there...

"If I want(ed) the most black people", I would have said that, no? Very strange commentary on your part, borderline ignorant...and as for my comment about Kentucky, I have no attraction to it, it's influences, or proximity to it. Again, not sure how a post in which I'm responding to inquiries about my family's or mine own desires equals ignorant. I'll stop just short of calling your entire response "meaningless", but your response provided next to nothing of semblance and you definitely would've done better arguing with the man in your head...
You are, as I expected, unable to deal with people who don't think exactly like you. Point proven. You really took the bait!

Actually, I did address your points. I did give advice. Seems like you already decided on Columbus though, so not sure why you posted at all. Hope you enjoy it!
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Old 02-07-2018, 09:47 AM
 
Location: Cleveland, OH
9,822 posts, read 9,105,790 times
Reputation: 8821
In my opinion, Grandview Heights would be the place to look. It sounds like it might be close to what you have in Virginia Beach. Really just a stone's throw from downtown Columbus too. Clintonville isn't a suburb, but it does have that feel in parts that would be attractive for your wife. A friend of mine just bought a home in Worthington, seems like a nice place with a good quality of living, but I think that it might be too suburban for you. But take a look around I guess- it's also not far from the city really. Upper Arlington and Bexley are both quite nice places, though very wealthy (not sure of your income level).

Overall, if I were you, I'd look first at Grandview Heights and second at Clintonville. Those would be my top two preferences by a decent margin.
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Old 02-07-2018, 09:53 AM
 
Location: South Raleigh areas
5,174 posts, read 3,770,370 times
Reputation: 5752
Quote:
Originally Posted by bjimmy24 View Post
You are, as I expected, unable to deal with people who don't think exactly like you.
Very wrong lol, but it's your world, man...

Quote:
Originally Posted by WRnative View Post
I ignored your latest insult.
It was tongue-in-cheek...

The access to a rail line is a big deal for me. Shaker Heights looks like a good deal and I actually just shared that post with her; it's never too early to begin planning and exploring. I appreciate the info!
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Old 02-07-2018, 09:59 AM
 
Location: Mexico City, formerly Columbus, Ohio
15,941 posts, read 15,261,109 times
Reputation: 7189
Quote:
Originally Posted by WRnative View Post
You've nailed one reason the quality of life is higher in Cleveland than in Columbus. Cleveland proper, having lost over half of its population in just over half a century, yet still is the beneficiary of great industrial age fortunes controlled by very civic-minded families (even to this day), and has, unlike Columbus, the bones of a great city, whether measured by exceptional cultural institutions, mass transit, etc.

Whether Playhouse Square, old department stores, old bank building, or old office buildings, Cleveland has been one of the nation's leaders in converting great old buildings to new uses, often housing for its burgeoning downtown residential population.

As I've said repeatedly, I do worry about the Cleveland economy in coming years, until all of the Midwest begins to experience another great migration from the South resulting from the myriad impacts of climate change.

The Republican toll road (rising tolls on the Ohio Turnpike and Indiana Toll Road) is negating northern Ohio's natural manufacturing advantages.

And Cleveland, unlike Columbus, doesn't possess the massive multiplier effect that results from the inflow of funds to Ohio's capital city.

As an Ohioan, I do worry about the future of many leading retail and consumer products companies headquartered in Cincinnati and Columbus as the 21st retail market continues its evolution towards online merchandising. Sadly, Ohio's state government has financed Amazon's expansion in the state to the disadvantage of the state's existing retailers. Interestingly, this issue is much more under discussion in the Cincinnati forum than in the Columbus forum.
Yep, definitely stage 4, though I forgot to mention the inevitable conspiracy theories.
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