Ohio 2018: more important TODAY-->Cincinnati, Cleveland, or Columbus? (Dayton: rentals, credit)

[Cleveland_Collector]

Originally Posted by motorman

Personally, I think this thread is well into stage 4 and, without some sort of feedback from the OP, will move to stage 5.

Of course, neither you nor your CBus via Mexico City buddy had anything to do with it.

[Cleveland_Collector]

Originally Posted by WRnative

It would be interesting to calculate the number of square miles in the Cleveland metro versus Cincinnati and Columbus. I don't care enough to do so, because unlike Motorman, I think much superior cultural institutions, having a Great Lake in my front yard, superior mass transit, one of the world's best medical centers, and a superior pro sports line-up, makes Cleveland a much preferable place to live compared with Cincinnati or Columbus.

If a person doesn't agree with my logic and/or preferences, they are welcome to get all puffed up and spend their lives in Cincinnati or Columbus.

It has been done in other threads with a predictable outcome - the economic output of the GCMA is far larger and has greater density.

This is the real reason that Motorman's MSA GDP statistics may be hogwash. If Motorman doesn't produce a detailed listing of square miles by county and a total of square miles for each MSA, we'll know my theory is correct!

They're 'hogwash' because they don't even address economic output. The link refers to goods exported either by OR THROUGH the area. That's why the much smaller NOLA and El Paso both rank in the top 10. NOLA is at the mouth of the Mississippi and El Paso is one of THE major export gateway into Mexico.

[motorman]

Originally Posted by Cleveland_Collector

Of course, neither you nor your CBus via Mexico City buddy had anything to do with it.

Also add yourself.

[jbcmh81]

Originally Posted by Cleveland_Collector

The difference is as big as I stated when you take into account common geography. That's why the GCMA is by far the largest media market, has a far busier airport, has 3 major sports franchises, has a very large Fortune 500/1000 presence, etc. The amount of economic output and, moreover, economic density tend to play a huge role in those metrics. And, yes, the economic numbers are calculated over a 17 county area for each. Cleveland gets 5... the other two get 17. If it doesn't matter, stop squeezing every nickel into the equation.

Any link on that? Why would Columbus' metro economic output be from 7 more counties than are in its metro area? Even its CSA is 5 counties smaller. What nickel and diming am I doing? I just argued that most of the output in all 3 C metros are from a handful of core counties rather than a bunch of outlying rural counties. In any case, maybe you guys should be working on trying to get Akron into your metro. Maybe with better regional cooperation...


And yes, I'm definitely intentionally contributing to #4.

[bjimmy24]

Originally Posted by jbcmh81

Any link on that? Why would Columbus' metro economic output be from 7 more counties than are in its metro area? Even its CSA is 5 counties smaller. What nickel and diming am I doing? I just argued that most of the output in all 3 C metros are from a handful of core counties rather than a bunch of outlying rural counties. In any case, maybe you guys should be working on trying to get Akron into your metro. Maybe with better regional cooperation...


And yes, I'm definitely intentionally contributing to #4.

I will write a letter to the Census to add Akron into the Cleveland metro. That'll work!

[jbcmh81]

Originally Posted by bjimmy24

I will write a letter to the Census to add Akron into the Cleveland metro. That'll work!

Actually one of the requirements is that both places in question have to agree to be included in the same metro. Your beef is not with the Census. If the assumption is that the 2 have already met all the required strong commuting and business connections, then one or both cities don't want to be connected to the other. I think that's the problem being referenced- very weak regional cooperation. It's either that or the other connections aren't quite as strong as being claimed. It can't be any other reason. The Census doesn't care one way or another. Columbus has 10 counties in its metro because all 10 want to be included in it and they have met the other requirements to be included. Cleveland can only claim that's true for 5 counties. So writing the Census won't do any good. Nurturing a positive regional relationship, however, just might.

[SteelCityRising]

Originally Posted by jbcmh81

Yeah, Cleveland definitely needs much better spokespeople on this forum. This is hardly the first time a largely innocent inquiry or observation has been met with scorn and rudeness.


My advice to the OP- Cincinnati or Columbus. At least they would welcome you.

Downtown(ish) Pittsburgher here who LOVES Ohio (going to the Buckeye State today, actually, to spend some money in the Mahoning Valley). I will admit, though, that Cleveland’s City-Data boosters have quite the reputation for being some of the most condescending and irritating on the entire forum. Every city has boosters. I mean Pittsburgh definitely has a disportionately higher number of we cheerleaders relative to its diminutive stature, but we’re not noted for being rude or overbearing at least; we are more nuanced.

WRNative and bjimmy, Cleveland doesn’t need your snarky “help”. I already love Cleveland and love spending money there without being told “Glad to see someone from Pittsburgh can acknowledge our superior opera to your backwards Appalachian hick town” (just veiled through eloquence). Cleveland is great. At least for the next generation or so I, as an outsider, would still consider Cleveland to be top dog in Ohio. If it continues to hemorrhage population it will be overtaken soon. That’s just reality.

[SteelCityRising]

Originally Posted by motorman

Something that hasn't yet been discussed on the Cincinnati forum, but gets to the heart of why Amazon rejected Cincinnati for HQ2:

From the CINCINNATI ENQUIRER, January 19, 2018

(Randy Tucker and Sarah Brookbank, talking with
Jeff Holzmann - managing director at iintoo,
a site selection and real estate investing firm in NYC)

After Amazon's snub, city wants bite at Apple

Being top dog

"While Indianapolis and Columbus can't compete on incentives with larger markets,
they may have gotten the nod from Amazon over Cincinnati because of what they don't have," Holzmann said.

"One thing they know if they move into the city like Columbus is that they would change the landscape there, and Columbus would immediately be known as the headquarters of Amazon," he said.

"By contrast, Amazon would have to compete with such corporate giants as Procter & Gamble, Kroger and Macy's for top billing in Cincinnati."

"Amazon is just like us," he said. "We all want to be top dog. And it's not clear that would be the case in Cincinnati."

I don’t buy this one. Pittsburgh not only made the Top 20 but is also likely to make the Top 10. We are already crowded with PNC, PPG, Heinz, UPMC, Dick’s Sporting Goods, FedEx Ground, U.S. Steel, Koppers, ALCOA, Mylan, UBER Autonomous Research, Google, and many other major companies having well-known corporate or regional HQ’s here. If Amazon truly wanted a smaller city they could “brand” they wouldn’t have kept Pittsburgh in contention. If anything Carnegie Mellon University (CMU) is the primary reason we’re still a contender because CMU is already one of the primary suppliers of workers to Amazon. Granted, as WRNative will soon correct me, CMU can’t hold a candle to Case Western Reserve for Amazon-ready engineers who love the opera and yada, yada, yada, but if Pittsburgh is still in the running I highly doubt they care about being able to dominate the branding of a smaller city. Not sure why Cincinnati was nixed, though while Indianapolis advanced. Seems foolish to me.

[jbcmh81]

Originally Posted by SteelCityRising

I don’t buy this one. Pittsburgh not only made the Top 20 but is also likely to make the Top 10. We are already crowded with PNC, PPG, Heinz, UPMC, Dick’s Sporting Goods, FedEx Ground, U.S. Steel, Koppers, ALCOA, Mylan, UBER Autonomous Research, Google, and many other major companies having well-known corporate or regional HQ’s here. If Amazon truly wanted a smaller city they could “brand” they wouldn’t have kept Pittsburgh in contention. If anything Carnegie Mellon University (CMU) is the primary reason we’re still a contender because CMU is already one of the primary suppliers of workers to Amazon. Granted, as WRNative will soon correct me, CMU can’t hold a candle to Case Western Reserve for Amazon-ready engineers who love the opera and yada, yada, yada, but if Pittsburgh is still in the running I highly doubt they care about being able to dominate the branding of a smaller city. Not sure why Cincinnati was nixed, though while Indianapolis advanced. Seems foolish to me.

Pittsburgh's educated workforce is certainly a positive in their chances. What may not be is that the population is largely stagnant. That would obviously change with Amazon coming to town, but they might want to go into a city already seeing decent growth. Honestly, it's difficult to know what direction they're going to go in.

[SteelCityRising]

Originally Posted by jbcmh81

Pittsburgh's educated workforce is certainly a positive in their chances. What may not be is that the population is largely stagnant. That would obviously change with Amazon coming to town, but they might want to go into a city already seeing decent growth. Honestly, it's difficult to know what direction they're going to go in.

It’s all speculative for certain. I don’t foresee Indianapolis, Columbus, OR Pittsburgh landing HQ2.

I have a gut instinct they’ll choose either Atlanta or Metro DC. As a Pennsylvanian I’ll continue to root for Philadelphia. Nashville could emerge as a dark horse.

Pittsburgh certainly still has its issues. Unlike Cleveland’s homers we Pittsburgh homers can admit that without getting needlessly condescending.