Likely moving to the Youngstown-Warren metropolitan area... (Cleveland, Boardman: sales, crime)

[JR_C]

Here's a website you might want to explore. It grades the livability of locations, (based on crime, cost of living, housing, amenities, etc.) and if it's a city, will break things down further by neighborhood. (although the neighborhood designations/boundaries aren't always recognized by the locals)



Moderator cut: link removed, competitor site


Obviously, you can compare locations in and around Youngstown/Warren. But, what I think is useful, is that you can gain perspective by comparing other neighborhoods you've lived in, with local neighborhoods. For example, my neighborhood is in one of Roodd279's no-go zones. Yet, the crime rate in my neighborhood is about the same as Cleveland's highly popular Ohio City neighborhood. (if I ever moved to Cleveland, OC is one of the first places I'd want to live)


This still isn't my full answer to your last post directed at me. I'll try to get to it tomorrow, if you want.

[roodd279]

My apologies, JR_C, if I painted your neighborhood bad. In a generalization such as this, I knew some "good" would end up with the "bad" but considering the reason for the question (moving here) I thought it was better than the other way.

[JR_C]

Originally Posted by Sharpei7ake

@JR_C
First off, thank you for your help.
I am considering Austintown & Boardman (if those are the neighborhoods you're referring to). I've just heard that Youngstown = bad and I don't know enough about the neighborhoods inside of Youngstown.

Boardman and Austintown are outside the city limits, but they're fine, too.


If you find Youngstown on Google Maps, the city neighborhoods that I think you'd like are: "Kirkmere" and "Schenley" on the west side, North Heights, on the north side, (but stay west of Elm Street, and maybe north of Crandall Ave.) Pleasant Grove (a.k.a. Boulevard Park) Brownlee Woods and maybe Idora, (especially if you can get a house adjacent to Mill Creek Park) on the south side. There may be neighborhoods you'd like on the east side, I'm least familiar with that part of the city. But you'd probably be more interested in the rural parts, away from the city.


I'm not just basing the above recommendations on level of crime. They are more suburban and green, and you might find larger lots in these areas. There are other neighborhoods that are fine, (like mine, the Wick Park neighborhood) but I don't think they're what you're looking for.

In the Cleveland area, all of the "ghetto" areas are within the city limits so it's kind of surprising to hear that some of the suburban areas around Youngstown have issues too. Thanks for that information (you could be saving me a lot of trouble).

Not to split hairs, but this isn't true about Cleveland. East Cleveland is a prime example.

Here's a list of Youngstown neighborhoods I found on Wikipedia:
These look like they could be the nicest neighborhoods (Arlington Heights, Cornersburg, Downtown, 5th Ave. by Gypsy Ln., Kirkmere, North Heights, Oak Hill, Schenley, and YSU).

I don't have any guesses on the worst neighborhoods but I've heard they are concentrated in the south and eastern (non-township areas) of Youngstown.

Do I have the locations of these neighborhoods correct?
Arlington Heights - Area to the NW of YSU by St. Elizabeth's Hospital?

Beachwood - ?

Brier Hill - Little Italy - Isolated from most of Y-town? - North of 422 and St. Elizabeth's hospital.

Brownlee Woods - Between 680 and Struthers

Cornersburg* - On the outskirts west of Lanterman's Mill and southeast of Austintown. Is this one of the nicer neighborhoods?

Cottage Grove - South Central Youngstown (assuming it's a bad area).

Downtown* - (already familiar with it) - One of the safer areas?

Down The Hill (SouthSide) - (assuming it's bad)

Fifth Avenue* - Area by 5th ave and Gypsy Ln (one of the nicer parts?)

Fosterville/Idora - Inner city area NE of Lanterman's Mill - Is it safe here? I've heard bad things about the Indianola Ave. area of Youngstown.

Hazelton - borders the Mahoning River south of Downtown and borders Campbell. (Bad neighborhood?)

Kirkmere* - area west of the golf course between Bears Den & S. Meridian Rd. - borders Austintown? - (a nicer neighborhood?)

Lansdowne* - NE of the city center by the jail(s) & McGuffey Rd. - Does it become safer as you travel east on McGuffey?

Lansingville - Looked @ on Google Streetview - looks OK - are my perceptions correct?

Lincoln Knolls - Rt. 422 + Jacobs Rd. (Small neighborhood)

Newport - by OH 7/ Midlothian & Indianola

North Heights* - Sounds like it's one of the nicer neighborhoods / perhaps gentrifying?

Oak Hill* - South of the city center east of Mill Creek Park and south of Mahoning Commons (nice area of town?)

Pleasant Grove - By Midlothian and Market St. (not the best part?)

Salt Springs - ?

Schenley* - By Mahoning Ave. west of Mill Creek Park - (a nicer part?)

Scienceville - East side of town - little info found

Smoky Hollow - a few blocks bordering YSU

University* - Is the area by YSU the nicest?

I think some/most of these names came from the Youngstown 2010 neighborhood planning map. Wiki seems to have a different list than Google, which is a little different from the link I gave you last night. LOL The neighborhood names you see more often, like Brownlee Woods, are obviously well established.


I also think that the crime stats make some of these areas look better than they really are, e.g. Arlington, or Oak Hill, because there just isn't much there, anymore. If you want an old house in the middle of urban prairie, these are the kinds of neighborhoods for you.

Youngstown ZIPCodes: - Which ZIPs should be considered and which shouldn't (or are bad neighborhoods speckled throughout Youngstown)? - (44509, 44510, 44511(***), 44507, 44502, 44506, 44505(***), 44503, 44504) (***) seem to be the nicest areas from what I've seen.

The good and bad areas are too "speckled" to use zip codes. 44511, for example, is very nice, overall. But the east side of that zip code gets into some less desirable parts of the south side.

Are police dispatched from the city center or do they have PD districts like most large cities? Basically, would the crimes in the "ghetto" affect response times to incidents in the nicer parts of Youngstown?

I seem to recall that the police set up a substation on the south side at some point in the past. But, I'm not sure if they still have one there. In any event, the police wouldn't respond from a central location, downtown, anyway. There are usually two or three officers patrolling designated areas at all times. I don't remember if these areas are wards, or sides of the city, (N,S,E,W) or what. So, unless there is a major event that requires lots of backup, officers aren't going to leave their patrol areas.



I've heard stories of long wait times, for police to arrive. But, in the 17 years I've lived here, I've had to call the police three times, and they've always arrived quickly.

Originally Posted by roodd279

My apologies, JR_C, if I painted your neighborhood bad. In a generalization such as this, I knew some "good" would end up with the "bad" but considering the reason for the question (moving here) I thought it was better than the other way.

No worries. Lots of people who don't live in my neighborhood think it's a bad neighborhood. It was a bad neighborhood 15-20 years ago, and it's still not without its problems. But, I still like it here, although I don't think it's what the OP is looking for.

[Sharpei7ake]

Originally Posted by thinkalot

Leavittsburg _ check for a history of flooding.

The lots look spacious in SW Warren because many of the homes were condemned/burned and then torn down.

In many of the areas you mention the value will drop, not increase.

I agree with the poster that mentioned McDonald. That may be the best place for you.

The Valley doesn't really follow national trends. When real estate was booming the gains in the Valley weren't nearly as high.

On the bright side you can probably find a home that was really built well at a good price. I knew some of the builders of the past, long dead, and they did quality work.

Thanks for the information about the flooding - we have major issues with it where I live right now.
It's good to know about SW Warren as well. I was just looking at a few properties listed by the Trumbull Land Bank. Do you know anything about that organization?

I have McDonald on my list of cities that I have no problem moving to and I didn't really have any questions about it.

I'm not really worried about home appreciation... I just don't want to lose the $ I put into my house.
Yes, and the "value" of homes in the Mahoning Valley is the #1 reason I'm planning on moving here.

[Sharpei7ake]

Thank you for the information about crime in Youngstown. I found this website online <www.communitycrimemap.com> and it basically backs up what you guys are saying. I can also compare these maps to places I've lived in the past.

By "East Side" I mean - draw two lines - both starting at YSU - take one diagonally north-east-ish, below hubbard, all the way to the PA line.

Take the other line East-ish - just thru the top of campbell and lowellville, all the way to the PA line.

You should end up with a slice of pie, and you should not live anywhere in that slice, except Lowellville. This pie includes many of the neighborhoods and zip codes you mentioned.

From YSU North, also in a narrower slice of Pie, just about all the way to I-80 is no place to live. There are some really - really - nice homes on Fifth Ave., and some nice places
around Gypsy too. But if it's far enough to be "safe" - it will not be 50K.

Thanks, I'll keep that in mind. I was looking at the North Heights & Wick Park neighborhoods on Google Street View and I was surprised at how nice the area and the homes looked. I noticed a major drop-off east of Elm St. (like JR_C mentioned above). The nicer parts reminded me of Cleveland Heights (sort of) but I still don't know enough about that area.

Are the Schenley and Cornersburg neighborhoods in the Austintown LSD? I also heard Austintown has "open enrollment". Is that true?

I have looked into Girard, McDonald, and Mineral Ridge. McDonald and Mineral Ridge are in my "top 5" areas to move to in the Mahoning Valley.

These questions all have the feel of a PhD Thesis and city research project.

Yeah, you can never be too careful. I've been stuck in bad areas in the past.
My spreadsheets are even worse than this haha.

@Roodd279 - Thanks for the crime info. It's all about finding a balance between safety, affordability, and long-term fit. Even if I move to a "safer" area my house is going to be decked out with security doors, security cameras, etc.

Here's a website you might want to explore. It grades the livability of locations, (based on crime, cost of living, housing, amenities, etc.) and if it's a city, will break things down further by neighborhood.

Yes, I've already looked at those neighborhoods on Moderator cut: link removed, competitor site. Thanks though. The only issue I have with that site is that "moderately unsafe" areas and "high crime" areas are both given "F" grades (for crime) so I have to get additional information from other sources. Like you said, your neighborhood is comparable to Ohio City (Cleveland) which was given an "F" rating for crime. I don't feel unsafe there but I do in the "F" rated areas on the east side of Cleveland.

If you find Youngstown on Google Maps, the city neighborhoods that I think you'd like are: "Kirkmere" and "Schenley" on the west side, North Heights, on the north side, (but stay west of Elm Street, and maybe north of Crandall Ave.) Pleasant Grove (a.k.a. Boulevard Park) Brownlee Woods and maybe Idora, (especially if you can get a house adjacent to Mill Creek Park) on the south side. There may be neighborhoods you'd like on the east side, I'm least familiar with that part of the city. But you'd probably be more interested in the rural parts, away from the city.

I've been looking into the Schenley and Kirkmere neighborhoods the past few days (thanks for the information). I am also considering the Cornersburg area. You're definitely right about the Elm St. area (I looked) and I'll check out Pleasant Grove and Brownlee Woods. I was impressed with the nicer parts of North Heights. From everything I've been told and based on what I've seen on crime maps, I don't plan on looking for anything on the east side of Youngstown.

Not to split hairs, but this isn't true about Cleveland. East Cleveland is a prime example.

True, and the eastern suburbs of Cleveland seem to be declining now (Garfield Hts., Maple Hts., Euclid, etc.). I live on the west side of Cleveland where there is a pretty big distinction in all areas (except the part of Cleveland that borders the Rocky River Reservation).

The crime maps don't make Oak Hill look too bad (except for their arson problem). I took a look at that area and some areas look decent but other areas look pretty bad. I'm assuming all of this vacant land is from recent demolitions in that area?
Also, thanks for the information about the ZIP Codes.

I've heard stories of long wait times, for police to arrive. But, in the 17 years I've lived here, I've had to call the police three times, and they've always arrived quickly.

That's good to hear. I live in a safe area right now but I rarely see police patroling. I've lived in unsafe areas in the past where you see a cop every 30 seconds. Good response time is probably the most important thing for someone like me. I can fend for myself but I wouldn't want to wait 10-15 minutes for police to respond to a home invasion.

If I had to go on a 3-5 day business trip do you think scrappers would target my home in that time period? Or is that something I'd only have to worry about in the "bad" neighborhoods of Youngstown?

[roodd279]

Three - Five days? Eh...you're probably fine, in any of the "better" places we've mentioned. My mom's home is in a bit of a seedy area, and it's been empty for weeks at a time with no problems (I have cameras inside). But - just depends on motive and opportunity, I suppose.


Mineral Ridge - some nice lots, older relatively inexpensive homes, I would say it's "as good as it gets" around here with regard to crime. It's a tiny - tiny - village of a place, there is no "downtown" or anything like that, just a some decent middle class neighborhoods, nice school, no worries - would recommend it enthusiastically, and have spent much time there.


You could probably find some real bargains in that area.

[Sharpei7ake]

Mineral Ridge - some nice lots, older relatively inexpensive homes, I would say it's "as good as it gets" around here with regard to crime. It's a tiny - tiny - village of a place, there is no "downtown" or anything like that, just a some decent middle class neighborhoods, nice school, no worries - would recommend it enthusiastically, and have spent much time there.

Yeah, I like Mineral Ridge but I don't see as many homes on the market in that area. I'm sure I'd jump on a good deal in Mineral Ridge though. Same goes for McDonald. What school district is Mineral Ridge a part of?

[roodd279]

Mineral Ridge is what we call "Weathersfield School District" but it's really just the "Mineral Ridge" school system - it's not cross-pollinated with any other district or community.

[JR_C]

Originally Posted by Sharpei7ake

Thanks, I'll keep that in mind. I was looking at the North Heights & Wick Park neighborhoods on Google Street View and I was surprised at how nice the area and the homes looked. I noticed a major drop-off east of Elm St. (like JR_C mentioned above). The nicer parts reminded me of Cleveland Heights (sort of) but I still don't know enough about that area.

I really like living in the Wick Park neighborhood.


Wick Ave, in what is now mostly YSU, was Youngstown's first millionaire's row, in the Victorian era. As that area was built out, the wealth moved up to the Wick Park area, in the early 20th century. Then, as the Wick Park neighborhood was built out, the wealth continued up Fifth Ave. As YSU grew, and the Wick Park neighborhood started to age, the large houses began to be turned into student housing. Eventually, some--many--of the houses became owned by slum lords, and the neighborhood declined. The neighborhood really hit bottom in the 90s and early 2000s. Since then, people have been trickling in and buying some of the abandoned houses and renovating them. (sorry for the history lesson; I just think it helps to explain why a neighborhood is the way it is, sometimes)



Fifth Ave. (in the North Heights neighborhood) never really declined. It just falls under the same shadow of stigma and poor schools as the other nice city neighborhoods.

Are the Schenley and Cornersburg neighborhoods in the Austintown LSD? I also heard Austintown has "open enrollment". Is that true?

Schenley and Cornersburg are in the Youngstown CSD. And, yes, Austintown has open enrollment.

Thanks for the crime info. It's all about finding a balance between safety, affordability, and long-term fit. Even if I move to a "safer" area my house is going to be decked out with security doors, security cameras, etc.

Some of my neighbors have security cameras, like Ring, or Nest. I just have a basic home security system. (door open sensors, glass break sensor, motion sensor) Now that I have gotten used to a system like this, I'd probably have one, no matter where I lived. I don't think any of my neighbors have security doors, unless they're on entrances that are hidden from view, like a rear basement door, etc.

Thanks though. The only issue I have with that site is that "moderately unsafe" areas and "high crime" areas are both given "F" grades (for crime) so I have to get additional information from other sources. Like you said, your neighborhood is comparable to Ohio City (Cleveland) which was given an "F" rating for crime. I don't feel unsafe there but I do in the "F" rated areas on the east side of Cleveland.

I find the letter grades of that site to be kind of subjective, and I don't give them much weight. But, the hard numbers are there to see.

The crime maps don't make Oak Hill look too bad (except for their arson problem). I took a look at that area and some areas look decent but other areas look pretty bad. I'm assuming all of this vacant land is from recent demolitions in that area?

The vacant land in the Oakhill neighborhood is from years--maybe even decades--of arson and demolition. For a long time, arson has been seen as the vigilante way to rid yourself of a nearby problem property--a vacant house you're tired of looking at. But, there are also the usual suspects: kids vandalizing, and insurance fraud. This is the cause of vacant land all across the city, although the city has taken a more proactive approach to demolition over the last 10-15 years.

If I had to go on a 3-5 day business trip do you think scrappers would target my home in that time period? Or is that something I'd only have to worry about in the "bad" neighborhoods of Youngstown?

It's impossible to say. It depends on how much of a target you and your house look like, maybe. My current house was vacant for two years, while I was fixing it up, before I moved in. No one ever broke in. But, a neighbor's house--that also needed considerable work before it could be lived in--was broken into the very first night she owned it, and they took all of her tools. (I believe a local church was kind enough to take a collection, and replaced everything that was stolen) While some may disagree, I don't think it matters if you live in a "good" neighborhood, or not. Many of my family members (none of whom live in the Youngstown area) have been burglarized over the years, and they all live in "good" neighborhoods in suburbs and small towns.

[CortlandGirl79]

I don't have a lot of time to give a detailed answer, but feel free to PM me if you want to know about a particular neighborhood or street in Trumbull County. I know Warren/Niles and the surrounding areas very, very well.