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Nuclear energy is green energy. (I agree with the rest of your points though.)
But we should not be bailing the nuclear plants out...First Energy has done a terrible job running them...if they can't keep them running w/out a taxpayer bailout, shut them down.
...Ohio’s Democratic base is most like the Sherrod Brown, Jim Traficant and Tim Ryan variety. These types of Democrats are likely socially conservative but more liberal on issues pertaining to labor unions, and a big government that looks out for the working man and woman....
Quote:
Originally Posted by aca1
...The Democratic party of the past was mostly about being pro-union, pro 'working-man' type issues but has increasingly been more about social issues. As late as the 90s Bill Clinton signed a defense of marriage act. This would be unthinkable for Biden to do. A lot of people who used to vote Democrat in Ohio are old factory workers and coal industry people in rural Southern Ohio and industrial north east Ohio. These people supported the Democratic party's economic goals but were always kind of socially conservative. ...
Good summaries!
What Ohio most flagrantly lacks, is a subset of the "RINO" type... wealthy, highly-educated, investment/tech-oriented... but secular, sexually libertine, and not particularly family-oriented (and maybe even child-free)... the sort of voter who would favor Bill Buckley on economic issues, but Gore Vidal on social ones. ... the sort who would have condemned 60s radicals because such activism was bad for business, but who in the 70s attended "key parties" and who understands the meaning of, ahem, discretion. These are the sorts of voters whose great-grandparents would have had tony mansions in Cleveland, who would have thought that Teddy Roosevelt was a big-government liberal, and whose grandparents thought that FDR was an outright commie. But then their parents voted for Adlai Stevenson (twice) and they in turn thought that Reagan was a boorish insolent bounder who had not business being in politics.
This sort of voter had a brief fling with a couple of dark-horse candidates in the 2020 cycle: first Howard Schultz, and later Mike Bloomberg. As those two flamed out, the voting-bloc was left homeless and unaligned. But most likely, they left Ohio... 40 years ago.
Yeah, thanks to the media, comics, progressives, Coastal elites and society at large JK. They shaped the narrative almost 60 years ago and the rest of the country has ran with it. Ohio and the rest of the Midwest (except for Chicago and Minneapolis) still gets joked about and beat upon to this day by almost everybody and their mama as America's scapegoat.
But, also there's a misconception that everyone in Ohio votes red loyally, which isn't true just like everyone in Massachusetts votes blue loyally. Not saying you're assuming that, but a lot of people in society do. Another reason why Biden didn't win Ohio is because of the gerrymandering that has gone on over the last decades across the country. Districts has been split up mercilessly; Ohio districts looked more diverse politically now with gerrymandering Ohio looks overwhelmingly red now.
Last edited by QCongress83216; 03-04-2021 at 10:06 AM..
Yeah, thanks to the media, comics, progressives, Coastal elites and society at large JK. They shaped the narrative almost 60 years ago and the rest of the country has ran with it. Ohio and the rest of the Midwest (except for Chicago and Minneapolis) still gets joked about and beat upon to this day by almost everybody and their mama as America's scapegoat.
But, also there's a misconception that everyone in Ohio votes red loyally, which isn't true just like everyone in Massachusetts votes blue loyally. Not saying you're assuming that, but a lot of people in society do. Another reason why Biden didn't win Ohio is because of the gerrymandering that has gone on over the last decades across the country. Districts has been split up mercilessly; Ohio districts looked more diverse politically now with gerrymandering Ohio looks overwhelmingly red now.
Gerrymandering affects the congressional districts (hence Ohio has 12 GOP reps and only 4 Dem reps) but shouldn't affect the statewide votes.
One issue that I doubt has been addressed here is that Biden's team gave up on Ohio. They saw Trump's huge win over Hillary and decided to place resources elsewhere. The modern Democratic coalition is based around metros, especially ones with large growing urban cores and educated suburbs. Only Columbus fits the bill in Ohio and isn't big enough, Cleveland is shrinking, Cincinnati's suburbs are still very conservative, and Youngstown probably now has more in common with Mansfield than even Akron in terms of real significance and can't even overpower the rest of the county anymore. The Republican coalition has grown to monopolize the rurals, Pike County in southern Ohio voted for Romney by only ONE vote and is now 70+% GOP. There has been big movement towards Trump in more rural parts of Northeast Ohio as well in eastern Geagua and Trumbull counties.
Re: gerrymandering, OH-13 is a Democratic vote sink artificially uniting Youngstown and Akron. It's represented by one of the more tepid Democrats in the House and voted to the right of the nation in 2020. Still narrowly went Biden, but a fairly drawn Mahoning Valley district, Safe D in 2012, would've safely gone to Trump. Ohio's political culture has changed, the unionized workers that remained in the area and made Ohio competitive in 2004 (voting narrowly to the left of the nation, while still narrowly Bush as Columbus and Cincy were still fairly right wing at the time) have departed, given up and vote on weird social issues that don't apply outside of the media bubble, or have fallen hook line and sinker for Trump's populist brand.
For Ohio Democrats it is a truly dire situation. They find themselves defending Gov. DeWine, who they voted out of the Senate in 2006, against the truly extreme portions of the GOP that were too unelectable for the purple Ohio of yesterday. Those I know who follow politics already view the GOP primaries as the real contests for the 2022 midterm Gubernatorial and Senatorial contests. Democrats are viewed as only viable if someone too extreme is nominated. Senator Brown's reelection in 2018 may have been the last hurrah for the statewide Democratic party, and he was against a nobody of an opponent.
One issue that I doubt has been addressed here is that Biden's team gave up on Ohio. They saw Trump's huge win over Hillary and decided to place resources elsewhere. The modern Democratic coalition is based around metros, especially ones with large growing urban cores and educated suburbs. Only Columbus fits the bill in Ohio and isn't big enough, Cleveland is shrinking, Cincinnati's suburbs are still very conservative, and Youngstown probably now has more in common with Mansfield than even Akron in terms of real significance and can't even overpower the rest of the county anymore. The Republican coalition has grown to monopolize the rurals, Pike County in southern Ohio voted for Romney by only ONE vote and is now 70+% GOP. There has been big movement towards Trump in more rural parts of Northeast Ohio as well in eastern Geagua and Trumbull counties.
Re: gerrymandering, OH-13 is a Democratic vote sink artificially uniting Youngstown and Akron. It's represented by one of the more tepid Democrats in the House and voted to the right of the nation in 2020. Still narrowly went Biden, but a fairly drawn Mahoning Valley district, Safe D in 2012, would've safely gone to Trump. Ohio's political culture has changed, the unionized workers that remained in the area and made Ohio competitive in 2004 (voting narrowly to the left of the nation, while still narrowly Bush as Columbus and Cincy were still fairly right wing at the time) have departed, given up and vote on weird social issues that don't apply outside of the media bubble, or have fallen hook line and sinker for Trump's populist brand.
For Ohio Democrats it is a truly dire situation. They find themselves defending Gov. DeWine, who they voted out of the Senate in 2006, against the truly extreme portions of the GOP that were too unelectable for the purple Ohio of yesterday. Those I know who follow politics already view the GOP primaries as the real contests for the 2022 midterm Gubernatorial and Senatorial contests. Democrats are viewed as only viable if someone too extreme is nominated. Senator Brown's reelection in 2018 may have been the last hurrah for the statewide Democratic party, and he was against a nobody of an opponent.
The entire GOP has become a clown show of fascism, white nationalism, nativism, and anti-scientific ignorance. They seem to have absolutely no ideas for helping anyone beyond tax cuts for the rich and... well, that's pretty much it. They have zero in common with the former Party of Lincoln, and have arguably become a direct threat to American democracy with their attacks on voting and free speech.
Trump shares some of the responsibility for bringing that out, but as much as I truly despise the man, he can't be blamed for all of it. It started long before him and Trumpism was just the natural conclusion.
Unfortunately, Ohio has *many* people who are natural Trump supporters- the disaffected, the impoverished, the low educated- all of which seem to be easily duped with false promises about a return to glory and the casual racism/bigotry used to blame everyone else for their own lot in life.
Biden's loss in Ohio was achieved not just because of those voters, but also because the Democratic Party in the state is seemingly worthless at doing anything productive. I hope they learned something from Georgia Democrats on how to get the turnout.
That said, I don't personally think Ohio is lost to the Democrats forever. Trump is unlikely to be on the 2024 ballot for many reasons, and I can't see any other Republican getting the same level of turnout that he managed. Furthermore, Republicans with Trump sort of reached their absolute peak potential in terms of votes. Most red counties in Ohio are dying and depopulating. It's difficult to tell exactly where those people are going, but given that rural conservative counties skew much older in average age, they're most likely retiring someplace warmer- such as the craphole that is Florida. As such, rural counties are steadily losing their percent of the total state voting share.
Meanwhile, urban, more progressive and diverse counties are the ones leading the state's population growth. Without Columbus and Cincinnati, the state would've been losing population overall years ago. So while rural counties may have turned redder in the last 2 elections, their influence is waning while bluer counties and even many suburbs are taking up a larger share now. In Columbus, for instance, every suburb had a net move to the left in 2020 vs 2016, even Grove City which votes like it's in rural Kentucky.
So all this to me means that Republicans reached their absolute peak in the state in 2020, but Democratic turnout in the state was arguably not at peak. In the Cleveland area, that is especially true. Democrats in Ohio need to learn from successes elsewhere and not give up. The upcoming end of strictly partisan gerrymandering should also help make the state more competitive in House races.
The entire GOP has become a clown show of fascism, white nationalism, nativism, and anti-scientific ignorance. They seem to have absolutely no ideas for helping anyone beyond tax cuts for the rich and... well, that's pretty much it. They have zero in common with the former Party of Lincoln, and have arguably become a direct threat to American democracy with their attacks on voting and free speech.
Trump shares some of the responsibility for bringing that out, but as much as I truly despise the man, he can't be blamed for all of it. It started long before him and Trumpism was just the natural conclusion.
Unfortunately, Ohio has *many* people who are natural Trump supporters- the disaffected, the impoverished, the low educated- all of which seem to be easily duped with false promises about a return to glory and the casual racism/bigotry used to blame everyone else for their own lot in life.
Biden's loss in Ohio was achieved not just because of those voters, but also because the Democratic Party in the state is seemingly worthless at doing anything productive. I hope they learned something from Georgia Democrats on how to get the turnout.
That said, I don't personally think Ohio is lost to the Democrats forever. Trump is unlikely to be on the 2024 ballot for many reasons, and I can't see any other Republican getting the same level of turnout that he managed. Furthermore, Republicans with Trump sort of reached their absolute peak potential in terms of votes. Most red counties in Ohio are dying and depopulating. It's difficult to tell exactly where those people are going, but given that rural conservative counties skew much older in average age, they're most likely retiring someplace warmer- such as the craphole that is Florida. As such, rural counties are steadily losing their percent of the total state voting share.
Meanwhile, urban, more progressive and diverse counties are the ones leading the state's population growth. Without Columbus and Cincinnati, the state would've been losing population overall years ago. So while rural counties may have turned redder in the last 2 elections, their influence is waning while bluer counties and even many suburbs are taking up a larger share now. In Columbus, for instance, every suburb had a net move to the left in 2020 vs 2016, even Grove City which votes like it's in rural Kentucky.
So all this to me means that Republicans reached their absolute peak in the state in 2020, but Democratic turnout in the state was arguably not at peak. In the Cleveland area, that is especially true. Democrats in Ohio need to learn from successes elsewhere and not give up. The upcoming end of strictly partisan gerrymandering should also help make the state more competitive in House races.
I honestly don't understand what happened in the Cleveland area, and why our turnout was so low...if you drove around the areas I live in and work in, Shaker Hts, University Hts, Cleve Hts, Beachwood, Pepper Pike, and Lyndhurst...there were thousands of Biden signs out in people's yards, yet, turnout seemed low...Obama had huge turnouts here...but Obama worked his ass off and Dems don't do that anymore.
I honestly don't understand what happened in the Cleveland area, and why our turnout was so low...if you drove around the areas I live in and work in, Shaker Hts, University Hts, Cleve Hts, Beachwood, Pepper Pike, and Lyndhurst...there were thousands of Biden signs out in people's yards, yet, turnout seemed low...Obama had huge turnouts here...but Obama worked his ass off and Dems don't do that anymore.
Yeah, I believe Democratic turnout in places like Cuyahoga County was lower in 2020 than 2016. Democratic turnout was generally suppressed somewhat in NEO. Meanwhile, Columbus and Cincinnati both saw record Democratic turnout. Not sure what happened, either, except maybe there are a lot more disaffected people in that part of the state who liked that Trump blamed everyone else for their problems and told them what they wanted to hear. The whole message about manufacturing and sticking it to immigrants and minorities really resonated with a lot of people. NEO still has the most Democratic voters, but it's share has been dropping for a long time.
I honestly don't understand what happened in the Cleveland area, and why our turnout was so low...if you drove around the areas I live in and work in, Shaker Hts, University Hts, Cleve Hts, Beachwood, Pepper Pike, and Lyndhurst...there were thousands of Biden signs out in people's yards, yet, turnout seemed low...Obama had huge turnouts here...but Obama worked his ass off and Dems don't do that anymore.
Ohio is a populist state, Biden was an establishment candidate. People weren’t that enthusiastic about voting for him, so they didn’t bother showing up at the polls. If Our polling places weren’t shut down the night before the primaries, I guarantee you Bernie would have won the Ohio primary.
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JK. They shaped the narrative almost 60 years ago and the rest of the country has ran with it. Ohio and the rest of the Midwest (except for Chicago and Minneapolis) still gets joked about and beat upon to this day by almost everybody and their mama as America's scapegoat. 
