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Yes and I forgot to mention that I have NEVER seen so many white bums as I've seen walking around the OK City area, mainly southern and central parts. I've just gotten used to it on my visits up there. I remember the first time I walked into a Grider's, on some NW street, and was just dumbfounded at how many crazy white people I saw walking into that place. And yes I am white myself!! Then I saw 'em walking around the streets of OK City and thought "My goodness, what is the deal??" But I noticed that the farther North you go in the city, the less of that you see. And hence one of the reasons why we are moving to Edmond!!
Much of it is a pride issue. black bums have no problem getting on welfare and accepting section 8 housing, and lots of them are more likely to get put in the county jail than non blacks, which would explain not seeing that many of them floating around, although you can find a lot in the downtown area. White pride runs strong in Oklahoma, rich or poor.
We prefer to attend multi-racial congregations. Not all white, not all black, not all Hispanic, not all Asian, but a mix of all of them. They are sometimes hard to come across, though!
We're moving to Edmond in a month, so it will be interesting to see if we experience any racism up there. Hopefully not!
First, the best way to understand what sort of apparent segregation that exists in Oklahoma City is to look at this map...
All sizes | Race and ethnicity: Oklahoma City | Flickr - Photo Sharing! (http://www.flickr.com/photos/walkingsf/4982014786/sizes/l/in/set-72157624812674967/ - broken link)
You can definitely see how certain parts of town have large concentrations of blue dots(blacks) or where there are mostly red dots(whites) or orange dots(hispanics).
As for racism in Oklahoma, it is strange. The number of people who are "part native-American" in Oklahoma is pretty astounding. Its just that most of those people just look white, so they usually put down on forms that they are just white(I know I do). But just being part native-American doesn't suddenly stop you from being racist, it just narrows the scope.
This is an interesting article about Tahlequah, discussing Cherokee history and culture. The interesting part in regards to racism can be found in the "interaction with others" area.
Tahlequah, for example, appears to have a large white population, but much of that population consists of old mixed-blood families, and many of them are officially tribal members. There are also Indians from other tribes who have moved into Tahlequah: Creeks, Kiowas, Osages, and even Navajos. Some of that is the result of intermarriage, some is not. There is a significant Hispanic population in Tahlequah today, and a small black population. Both of these groups have had trouble fitting in. They have not been readily accepted by the Cherokees, full- or mixed-blood, nor by the local whites, although there is seldom any overt racism displayed.
This pretty much sums up racism in Oklahoma that I've noticed. You basically have almost no racism between natives-americans and whites(who are usually part native-American). Racism/prejudice towards hispanics is an issue but it is not severe, and in my opinion is mostly derived from the Spanish language and associated culture that tends to keep them separate from the more mainstream Oklahoma culture.
In my opinion, most racism in Oklahoma is directed squarely at blacks. Whites don't like blacks, Asians don't like blacks, native-americans don't like blacks, hispanics don't like blacks, I don't even think blacks like other blacks. I went to largely hispanic schools with a sizeable black population, you saw a lot of hispanic and black gangs, and a lot of hispanic vs black fights. The animosity between hispanics and blacks is very high.
I live in Moore and went to high school at Moore High(which is predominantly white). There were plenty of native-americans and hispanics, I don't even remember there even being a complaint about it, they pretty much were spread out around the school. Blacks though, they kept mostly to themselves. And you had issues of "rednecks vs blacks"(usually referred to much more derogatively).
I hear comments all the time from people who complain that much of Northern moore and some older areas of Moore are being run down, usually the reason or result is that there are large numbers of blacks moving into the area.
The only exception to this, is usually right around military bases(such as around Tinker AFB, and around Ft. Sill in Lawton). And while there is still racism, it is largely subdued. In fact, I draw this same conclusion across the country, the military is the greatest racial integrater in this entire country. Which to me is really funny, since the most racist people in the country tend to be very "pro-military."
First, the best way to understand what sort of apparent segregation that exists in Oklahoma City is to look at this map...
All sizes | Race and ethnicity: Oklahoma City | Flickr - Photo Sharing! (http://www.flickr.com/photos/walkingsf/4982014786/sizes/l/in/set-72157624812674967/ - broken link)
You can definitely see how certain parts of town have large concentrations of blue dots(blacks) or where there are mostly red dots(whites) or orange dots(hispanics).
As for racism in Oklahoma, it is strange. The number of people who are "part native-American" in Oklahoma is pretty astounding. Its just that most of those people just look white, so they usually put down on forms that they are just white(I know I do). But just being part native-American doesn't suddenly stop you from being racist, it just narrows the scope.
This is an interesting article about Tahlequah, discussing Cherokee history and culture. The interesting part in regards to racism can be found in the "interaction with others" area.
This pretty much sums up racism in Oklahoma that I've noticed. You basically have almost no racism between natives-americans and whites(who are usually part native-American). Racism/prejudice towards hispanics is an issue but it is not severe, and in my opinion is mostly derived from the Spanish language and associated culture that tends to keep them separate from the more mainstream Oklahoma culture.
In my opinion, most racism in Oklahoma is directed squarely at blacks. Whites don't like blacks, Asians don't like blacks, native-americans don't like blacks, hispanics don't like blacks, I don't even think blacks like other blacks. I went to largely hispanic schools with a sizeable black population, you saw a lot of hispanic and black gangs, and a lot of hispanic vs black fights. The animosity between hispanics and blacks is very high.
I live in Moore and went to high school at Moore High(which is predominantly white). There were plenty of native-americans and hispanics, I don't even remember there even being a complaint about it, they pretty much were spread out around the school. Blacks though, they kept mostly to themselves. And you had issues of "rednecks vs blacks"(usually referred to much more derogatively).
I hear comments all the time from people who complain that much of Northern moore and some older areas of Moore are being run down, usually the reason or result is that there are large numbers of blacks moving into the area.
The only exception to this, is usually right around military bases(such as around Tinker AFB, and around Ft. Sill in Lawton). And while there is still racism, it is largely subdued. In fact, I draw this same conclusion across the country, the military is the greatest racial integrater in this entire country. Which to me is really funny, since the most racist people in the country tend to be very "pro-military."
Why? As far as I know, Native Americans have been genocided and treated horribly. As I am saying this, I am advocating that no one should hate anyone. With that said, I look at it this way. Native Americans were genocided and put through the Trail of Tears. And Black people didn't do that to Native Americans.
That still being said, Black people have been put through slavery and Jim Crow. If you look at Oklahoma history, hatred of Black people goes very far back. This is before Black crime rates were getting high. Some Cherokee owned Black slaves. Why all the hatred directed at Black people? I'm asking this because in my mind, this isn't some new phenomenon. This is very old. Racism towards Black people is a very old concept.
Why? As far as I know, Native Americans have been genocided and treated horribly. As I am saying this, I am advocating that no one should hate anyone. With that said, I look at it this way. Native Americans were genocided and put through the Trail of Tears. And Black people didn't do that to Native Americans.
That still being said, Black people have been put through slavery and Jim Crow. If you look at Oklahoma history, hatred of Black people goes very far back. This is before Black crime rates were getting high. Some Cherokee owned Black slaves. Why all the hatred directed at Black people? I'm asking this because in my mind, this isn't some new phenomenon. This is very old. Racism towards Black people is a very old concept.
First, racism and ethnocentrism are as old as civilization itself(or older). To expect them to disappear is to be a little naive. All you can hope for in regards to racism and ethnocentrism, is for society to eventually become as similar as possible over time(AKA, all Brown-skinned, English-speaking, culturally Americanized, Athiests). Despite the surge of foreigners coming to this country, having a secular government, ease of travel, and a competitive economy, this country should eventually become more and more similar to each other over time. The only real question is what the eventual result of this "mixing" will look like, and what their beliefs and values(culture) will be.
Everyone will want the future of America to be somewhat like themselves. People generally see themselves and their values as "good", and the values unlike their own as "bad". This is a cultural issue, and no country throughout time has been able to sustain a multi-cultural state over any period of time. One of the requirements for the Roman Empire was for cultural conformity. But still, ethnonationalism has been the downfall of most empires, it is the cause of the constant bloodshed in countries across the world. From Rwanda to the Sudan to Georgia(the country) to the Yugoslav wars(Bosnia) and elsewhere. Multi-culturalism is dangerous.
Racism is a complicated issue, because race itself isn't the primary issue, the primary issue as I said before is culture. But since each race tends to be closely tied to its own culture, many people just assume one is the other. When you hear muslim, I am sure most people think of Arabs/middle-easterners. But the most populous muslim country is Indonesia in Asia and many more muslims are Sub-Saharan African. In fact only about 15% of all muslims are Arabs.
In my opinion when it comes to Native-Americans and Africans and the disparity of racism between the two. I would have to say that the majority of the issue is part perception, part cultural differences, part volume of racial differences, and part sheer numbers.
At one time Native-Americans were seen as beneath Africans. Native-Americans were seen as so primitive and savage, that they could never be assimilated. Many early biologists believed they were basically the "missing link" in human evolution. Most Native-Americans were killed off by disease, either accidently or intentionally. Many more were killed off by things such as the Indian removals to Oklahoma, or by Native-American haters clearing the land for the railroad(such as General Sherman/Sheridan). The few that remained of the Native-Americans after their brutal treatment, were largely absorbed into white society and assimilated into white culture. Many people aren't even aware of their Native-American heritage, because at one time it was shameful to be part Native-American. There have been genetic studies done that show that more than half of all Americans are at least "part Native-American". And because of the Native-Americans relatively low numbers, ease of genetic assimilation, and their almost complete cultural conformity(English-speaking Christians), and their perception as being relatively passive. The Native-Americans just aren't a threat, and their low numbers could easily be absorbed into the rest of white-America without much notice, especially since their birth rates are even lower than white-Americans. Translation : They are not a threat to white society, culture, or values.
So, we get to African-Americans. Lets just say, African-Americans have a negative perception associated with them, they tend to be associated with a separate culture(black culture save a better descriptor) that seems to permeate all classes of African-American society. And that culture is generally seen by other groups as being largely bad, immoral, violent, overly sexualized, and just different. Sub-saharan Africans are the most genetically distant racial group in the world, and it takes several generations of genetic assimilation for someone to go relatively unnoticed into white society(usually 7/8ths white minimum). And because of the relatively large numbers of African-Americans in this country(13%), and their relatively high birth rates, it would be basically impossible for Africans to be absorbed into white society without heavily transforming it(especially in the old south, where blacks are as much as 1/3rd of the population). Translation : They are a threat to White society, culture, and values.
If you don't understand what I mean. What is the difference between a Native-American and the Hispanics that are coming here? Genetically.. not much. But they are culturally different, they speak another language, their numbers are large, and they reproduce quickly. Translation, they are a threat to white society, culture, and values.
And to add to this, Asians that come here tend to conform to American culture quickly and learn English. They have a good perception associated with them, their numbers are relatively small, they genetically assimilate fairly easy(light skin), they reproduce at low rates, they have compatible values, and they are easily absorbed into white society(about half of all Asian women are married to a white man). Translation : They are not a threat to white society, culture, or values.
As for minorities generally not liking each other, part of it is cultural and perception like before, and part of it is just competition. I think many hispanics get angry because blacks get so much special treatment, and always want people to feel sorry for them. But generally speaking, Hispanics are in a much worse financial and social situation than blacks are right now.
I personally believe that all special-priviledges that aim to benefit one racial group over another tend to increase racism and racial awareness. Even when it comes to the Native-Americans, without their special-priviledges(healthcare, casinos, etc) I don't think most people would really care if they were part Native-American at all. Those special-priviledges have enabled the Native-Americans to sort of become more ethnocentric and to be more separate in a sense. If that trend were to continue, there could be more a problem. But while the Native-Americans are relatively large in numbers overall, they aren't a monolithic group, and their numbers are sprawled out across hundreds of tribes(who don't really work with each other for the most part). So efforts for something like "relearning" the Cherokee language, will never amount to any sort of social backlash. Theres just not enough of them for it to ever be an issue.
There are already plenty of TINY groups of people living in this country that speak no English. From certain types of orthodox jews, to some Polish and French communities, to of course hispanic communities. But no one cares as long as they remain small, because as long as they are small, they aren't a threat.
First, racism and ethnocentrism are as old as civilization itself(or older). To expect them to disappear is to be a little naive. All you can hope for in regards to racism and ethnocentrism, is for society to eventually become as similar as possible over time(AKA, all Brown-skinned, English-speaking, culturally Americanized, Athiests). Despite the surge of foreigners coming to this country, having a secular government, ease of travel, and a competitive economy, this country should eventually become more and more similar to each other over time. The only real question is what the eventual result of this "mixing" will look like, and what their beliefs and values(culture) will be.
Everyone will want the future of America to be somewhat like themselves. People generally see themselves and their values as "good", and the values unlike their own as "bad". This is a cultural issue, and no country throughout time has been able to sustain a multi-cultural state over any period of time. One of the requirements for the Roman Empire was for cultural conformity. But still, ethnonationalism has been the downfall of most empires, it is the cause of the constant bloodshed in countries across the world. From Rwanda to the Sudan to Georgia(the country) to the Yugoslav wars(Bosnia) and elsewhere. Multi-culturalism is dangerous.
Racism is a complicated issue, because race itself isn't the primary issue, the primary issue as I said before is culture. But since each race tends to be closely tied to its own culture, many people just assume one is the other. When you hear muslim, I am sure most people think of Arabs/middle-easterners. But the most populous muslim country is Indonesia in Asia and many more muslims are Sub-Saharan African. In fact only about 15% of all muslims are Arabs.
In my opinion when it comes to Native-Americans and Africans and the disparity of racism between the two. I would have to say that the majority of the issue is part perception, part cultural differences, part volume of racial differences, and part sheer numbers.
At one time Native-Americans were seen as beneath Africans. Native-Americans were seen as so primitive and savage, that they could never be assimilated. Many early biologists believed they were basically the "missing link" in human evolution. Most Native-Americans were killed off by disease, either accidently or intentionally. Many more were killed off by things such as the Indian removals to Oklahoma, or by Native-American haters clearing the land for the railroad(such as General Sherman/Sheridan). The few that remained of the Native-Americans after their brutal treatment, were largely absorbed into white society and assimilated into white culture. Many people aren't even aware of their Native-American heritage, because at one time it was shameful to be part Native-American. There have been genetic studies done that show that more than half of all Americans are at least "part Native-American". And because of the Native-Americans relatively low numbers, ease of genetic assimilation, and their almost complete cultural conformity(English-speaking Christians), and their perception as being relatively passive. The Native-Americans just aren't a threat, and their low numbers could easily be absorbed into the rest of white-America without much notice, especially since their birth rates are even lower than white-Americans. Translation : They are not a threat to white society, culture, or values.
So, we get to African-Americans. Lets just say, African-Americans have a negative perception associated with them, they tend to be associated with a separate culture(black culture save a better descriptor) that seems to permeate all classes of African-American society. And that culture is generally seen by other groups as being largely bad, immoral, violent, overly sexualized, and just different. Sub-saharan Africans are the most genetically distant racial group in the world, and it takes several generations of genetic assimilation for someone to go relatively unnoticed into white society(usually 7/8ths white minimum). And because of the relatively large numbers of African-Americans in this country(13%), and their relatively high birth rates, it would be basically impossible for Africans to be absorbed into white society without heavily transforming it(especially in the old south, where blacks are as much as 1/3rd of the population). Translation : They are a threat to White society, culture, and values.
If you don't understand what I mean. What is the difference between a Native-American and the Hispanics that are coming here? Genetically.. not much. But they are culturally different, they speak another language, their numbers are large, and they reproduce quickly. Translation, they are a threat to white society, culture, and values.
And to add to this, Asians that come here tend to conform to American culture quickly and learn English. They have a good perception associated with them, their numbers are relatively small, they genetically assimilate fairly easy(light skin), they reproduce at low rates, they have compatible values, and they are easily absorbed into white society(about half of all Asian women are married to a white man). Translation : They are not a threat to white society, culture, or values.
As for minorities generally not liking each other, part of it is cultural and perception like before, and part of it is just competition. I think many hispanics get angry because blacks get so much special treatment, and always want people to feel sorry for them. But generally speaking, Hispanics are in a much worse financial and social situation than blacks are right now.
I personally believe that all special-priviledges that aim to benefit one racial group over another tend to increase racism and racial awareness. Even when it comes to the Native-Americans, without their special-priviledges(healthcare, casinos, etc) I don't think most people would really care if they were part Native-American at all. Those special-priviledges have enabled the Native-Americans to sort of become more ethnocentric and to be more separate in a sense. If that trend were to continue, there could be more a problem. But while the Native-Americans are relatively large in numbers overall, they aren't a monolithic group, and their numbers are sprawled out across hundreds of tribes(who don't really work with each other for the most part). So efforts for something like "relearning" the Cherokee language, will never amount to any sort of social backlash. Theres just not enough of them for it to ever be an issue.
There are already plenty of TINY groups of people living in this country that speak no English. From certain types of orthodox jews, to some Polish and French communities, to of course hispanic communities. But no one cares as long as they remain small, because as long as they are small, they aren't a threat.
I was just cruising through the OK forum, as I grew up in Edmond, and I just had to comment on this
First, the assertion that racism or ethnocentrim is justifiable because 'its been around' (which is historically wrong, because what we see as present day racism [towards blacks] is a product of slavery and the psychological need for one group of people to be able to morally justify to each other that it is ok to enslave another people) is just wrong.
Racism in Oklahoma, like everywhere else Ive been in the US, has evolved from blatant in your face racism (i.e. lynchings and other terrorist acts, redlining/segregation/ open exclusion of economic and educational opportunity) to a more refined, polished, subtle racism (e.g. disproportionate conviction rates, ridiculous characterizations/propaganda in media,etc) and class-ism. Probably the only part I agree with is that race is only a part (albeit fundamental) has to do with class. Certain minorities that 'act the part' will be allowed a certain amount of success whereas others wont. Former congressman JC Watts is a good example. He plays the part. That congressman from Florida Allan West, plays the part. <cough> Uncle Toms.
I go back over these comments, and at first it is EXACTLY what you will here in (civil) bar conversations about race with conservative folks; its just this zero sum world view that some people have that always pits one group of people against another. He writes ethnocentrism is the cause of most civilizations to fall (which is false - its the lack of available vital resources (water /food) or being conquered) and a couple sentences later writes that MULTI CULTURLISM is dangerous. Which is it? I though Ethnocentrism was the downfall of most societies?
Then we get to the paragraph where he talks about the African-American culture (and AFRICAN culture) like some kind of psuedo-anthropologist. This is nothing but racist propoganda. The whole nonsense...about genetically different. My god, that's straight from Stormfront/Nazi literature. Most sane people know that one, humans originally migrated from Africa and we all have the same genetic makeup, the only differences are superficial. Read a f-in REAL science book...sheesh.
Obviously from this guys post, we've got a long way to go, in terms of race in this country. Its almost fatalistic the way some of these people think about race and the progression of this country. IMO, that post really nailed the kind of racism you can expect in OK. People will be decent to ya, but it is a very conservative state.
Why? As far as I know, Native Americans have been genocided and treated horribly. As I am saying this, I am advocating that no one should hate anyone. With that said, I look at it this way. Native Americans were genocided and put through the Trail of Tears. And Black people didn't do that to Native Americans.
That still being said, Black people have been put through slavery and Jim Crow. If you look at Oklahoma history, hatred of Black people goes very far back. This is before Black crime rates were getting high. Some Cherokee owned Black slaves. Why all the hatred directed at Black people? I'm asking this because in my mind, this isn't some new phenomenon. This is very old. Racism towards Black people is a very old concept.
Its not new, but its not as old as others have suggested. Racism was born out of slavery and the need for one people to be able to justifiably (in their minds) oppress another group of humans. It is true that Native Americans owned slaves (from which I am a product of) and Africans owned slaves but it had nothing (or little) to do with racism, or hating people for superficially/cultural reasons but rather purely economical and a means of survival. Slavery and indentured servitude all that stuff has been all civilizations spanning the globe.
A really good historical college text I read and still have in my library is 'From Slavery to Freedom' by John Hope Franklin (world renowned historian). Check it out.
I was just cruising through the OK forum, as I grew up in Edmond, and I just had to comment on this
First, the assertion that racism or ethnocentrim is justifiable because 'its been around' (which is historically wrong, because what we see as present day racism [towards blacks] is a product of slavery and the psychological need for one group of people to be able to morally justify to each other that it is ok to enslave another people) is just wrong.
If racism was only about slavery, then racism would only apply to blacks. But racism and ethnocentrism target everything from blacks to native-americans to asians to arabs to jews to catholics to muslims to latinos to italians to irish and everything inbetween. Racism has existed in varying degrees as long as people of varying races have been interacting with each other. Even in the bible there is discussion of the races of man, especially in regards to Noahs sons(the curse of Ham or the Canaanites).
The truth is, racism is a natural condition of humanity. In its most basic sense, it is simply a fear or distrust of people different from yourself. It is the basic primitive tribal nature of humanity, and it is about survival of "your people".
Racism existed long before slavery(just as it will exist long after slavery), but I do understand that racism was used as a tool to help perpetuate slavery by those people who would benefit from it(wealthy land-owners who needed cheap labor to get rich). So while I understand that racism was pushed and pushed for a political and economic agenda, you have to concede that whites in general have never been very accepting of others. Native-Americans and especially Asians were not used as slaves, but marriages between whites and those groups were heavily frowned upon. Many of the children of such relationships would try to hide their non-white heritage.
Quote:
Racism in Oklahoma, like everywhere else Ive been in the US, has evolved from blatant in your face racism (i.e. lynchings and other terrorist acts, redlining/segregation/ open exclusion of economic and educational opportunity) to a more refined, polished, subtle racism (e.g. disproportionate conviction rates, ridiculous characterizations/propaganda in media,etc) and class-ism. Probably the only part I agree with is that race is only a part (albeit fundamental) has to do with class. Certain minorities that 'act the part' will be allowed a certain amount of success whereas others wont. Former congressman JC Watts is a good example. He plays the part. That congressman from Florida Allan West, plays the part. <cough> Uncle Toms.
The characterizations are based on trends, they aren't just made up. The same characterizations work for other ethnic and racial groups. Such as jews being cheap and having big noses. And for white people, well there is even a website called "Stuff White people like".
As for your examples of success, they are both people who work in the government. And because they are in government, they are elected by the people, and since the majority of the people in this country are white. The perception that whites have of blacks is very important for elected officials. But it goes both ways. About 96% of blacks voted for Obama in 2008, while only 39% of white women voted for Obama in 2008. But the possibility of elections being nothing more than a racial headcount has always worried me, and that is why I prefer a very limited government. That way the tyranny of the majority cannot end up creating racist laws such as Jim Crow and affirmative-action.
The real success of blacks happened not in government, it happened in the free market in areas like sports and entertainment. In real estate and oil production. And in fashion and music. The real success of blacks was from things like Jazz music, and in black athletes like Jackie Robinson. You seem to believe that a person can only make it in life if the ruling classes throw them some scraps. But that can't happen with a limited government, that can only happen with a large government. Which is the kind of thing that blacks in this country continually support at their own peril.
Quote:
I go back over these comments, and at first it is EXACTLY what you will here in (civil) bar conversations about race with conservative folks; its just this zero sum world view that some people have that always pits one group of people against another. He writes ethnocentrism is the cause of most civilizations to fall (which is false - its the lack of available vital resources (water /food) or being conquered) and a couple sentences later writes that MULTI CULTURLISM is dangerous. Which is it? I though Ethnocentrism was the downfall of most societies?
Do you even know what I mean when I talk about Ethnocentrism and multi-culturalism? You seem to believe when I talk about how ethnocentrism destroys empires that I am saying that a country being ethnocentric is somehow destructive? Not at all. What I am saying is, an empire usually encompasses several former countries and several former cultures and ethnic groups. And when I talk about ethnocentrism being the downfall of empires, what I am referring to is that ethnocentrism is an idea that begins to rip a country apart along those ethnic lines. Ethnocentrism is best epitomized in Nazi Germany, but Nazi Germany wasn't completely homogeneous. So what was the result of the extreme ethnocentrism/ethnonationalism of the Nazi's? The expulsion and extermination of the jews and gypsies. Ethnonationalism also caused the Bosnian war and the dissolution of Yugoslavia. It causes practically all the bloodshed the world over. And while there is absolutely nothing wrong with ethnonationalism itself, it is harmful if there are already multiple ethnicities living in a single territory. And when you attempt to create a "multi-cultural" society, that is what you are doing, throwing multiple ethnicities into a single territory, which is dangerous because such a society could easily be ripped apart along those ethnic lines(got muslims and Spanish-speaking hispanics anyone?).
Quote:
Then we get to the paragraph where he talks about the African-American culture (and AFRICAN culture) like some kind of psuedo-anthropologist. This is nothing but racist propoganda. The whole nonsense...about genetically different. My god, that's straight from Stormfront/Nazi literature. Most sane people know that one, humans originally migrated from Africa and we all have the same genetic makeup, the only differences are superficial. Read a f-in REAL science book...sheesh.
Umm, the only differences are superficial? Can you explain superficial? Such as what? Only skin color? How about skull shape, bone density, teeth pattern(yes they can identify your race and sex by your teeth), hair shape, hair texture, hair color, nasal cavity, nose shape, lip shape, brain volume, skin color, average height, muscle density, muscle fiber type(fast or slow twitch), testosterone levels, average hours of exercise needed daily, variances in daily nutrition needs, lactose intolerance, shoulder width to hip width ratio(affects running and jumping, and also child bearing), body to limb length proportion(eskimos have short limbs), rates of schizophrenia(its largely genetic), penis size, age of entering puberty, speed of development of babies in areas such as holding your head up, being able to sit up, learning to walk, and gestation period(whites have roughly a 1 week longer gestation period than blacks).
We can also discuss behavior and intelligence and how it relates very strongly with race, but I'll only hear people making assumptions that both behavior and intelligence are merely environmental, and therefore race can have no bearing on either. But if that were true, then all people could potentially be just as intelligent as every other person, and thus every person would have the potential to be a genius.
Quote:
Obviously from this guys post, we've got a long way to go, in terms of race in this country. Its almost fatalistic the way some of these people think about race and the progression of this country. IMO, that post really nailed the kind of racism you can expect in OK. People will be decent to ya, but it is a very conservative state.
I despise the word "progress". I hate people throwing out the word progress to describe either changes that have already occurred, or changes they desire. They refer to these things as "progress", when it reality these changes could just as well be considered a "regress". Take for instance the Civil Rights acts of the 60's and 70's, such as forced busing(which hit OKC hard). The crime rate doubled in just a few years, the divorce rate skyrocketed, the rate of single-parent families skyrocketed, now something like 40% of all children are on food stamps. The gap between rich and poor is still growing. Drug abuse is up. Happiness is down. People vote less, they involve themselves less with charities and their community. They are less trusting of their neighbor, and are generally more alone than they were in the past. Almost all measurable social characteristics are in the negative since that time. Yet, people want to call it progress?
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