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Even by your map most of Oklahoma is in Midlands dialect along with most of the lower Midwest.
Oklahoma is part of the South, not Midwest. We are part of a region called the south central United States. This includes the states of Oklahoma, Texas, Arkansas and Louisiana. That is the most accurate region to place Oklahoma. It is geographically, politically, culturally and historically southern. I suggest you visit the midwest if you think Oklahoma is midwestern or think Oklahomans have a midwestern accent. I also suggest you look at the map I posted again. Oklahoma's southern accent is a variation of the Ozark hillbilly and deep south.
South midland is sometimes called "upland south" That has nothing to do with "midwest." I think one of the most irritating things on the planet are people thinking Oklahoma is anything like or part of the midwest. Another fingernails on the chalkboard misconception are the people who think most of the state is situated in the great plains. We are a land of "y'all" grits and sweet tea.
Still in doubt or denial(Tulsans) take a trip down to Broken Bow and tell them they have a "midland" accent or are midwestern. You may not make it out of there.
Lol, that map places Kansas City in the same as Alabama and Mississippi.
It has been explained before, there are parts of Oklahoma that get the Midwest vibe however for the most part it is southern and southwestern depending where you are in the state. Most young folks in OKC and Tulsa have a very neutral "Midwest" accent however if you get out of the big city, this isn't as true. Nobody will care about your accent. People(OKC) think I am from around here even thought I grew up in California.
The map is from a study done on American dialects. It is not a regional map. You will still find remnants of the southern dialect overlapping into Kansas, Illinois, Indiana etc.
Here is another great study done on American English.
Most young folks THINK they have a neutral accent until they visit places like CA, AZ, NY or places in the Midwest. I used to think that until I moved away from Oklahoma for a while. I was set straight and was quickly informed that I have a southern drawl by the locals. The accent also gets stronger as people age. That's why you hear older folks with a strong Oklahoma drawl. Bottom line, she's not going to be judged, but she will know she has left the Midwest IMO
Lol, that map places Kansas City in the same as Alabama and Mississippi.
It has been explained before, there are parts of Oklahoma that get the Midwest vibe however for the most part it is southern and southwestern depending where you are in the state. Most young folks in OKC and Tulsa have a very neutral "Midwest" accent however if you get out of the big city, this isn't as true. Nobody will care about your accent. People(OKC) think I am from around here even thought I grew up in California.
Actually if you go just outside of Kansas City, especially just south, you do start picking up a bit of a twang. I definitely wouldn't mistake it for an sort of southern accent, more of a rural midlands-type accent. And all a midlands accent is just a neutral one with a handful of southern vowel pronunciation and vocabulary. You can hear similar patters of speech in Indianapolis and the Ohio River Valley cities. Its this type of speech thats most common in Oklahoma outside the SE/4 of the the state, where it does start getting more "southern."
When I think of "midwest" accents, I think of that Great Lakes style of speech you hear in Minnesota or Chicago (Chicahhhgo) or what they used to speak on that Superfans at Ditka's skit on SNL (Da Bearrsss!). Definitely not something you hear in this part of the world outside of transplants. But yes I don't think most people would care here. There's actually a lot of people from Chicago in OKC, so it is not completely unheard of.
Actually if you go just outside of Kansas City, especially just south, you do start picking up a bit of a twang. I definitely wouldn't mistake it for an sort of southern accent, more of a rural midlands-type accent. And all a midlands accent is just a neutral one with a handful of southern vowel pronunciation and vocabulary. You can hear similar patters of speech in Indianapolis and the Ohio River Valley cities. Its this type of speech thats most common in Oklahoma outside the SE/4 of the the state, where it does start getting more "southern."
When I think of "midwest" accents, I think of that Great Lakes style of speech you hear in Minnesota or Chicago (Chicahhhgo) or what they used to speak on that Superfans at Ditka's skit on SNL (Da Bearrsss!). Definitely not something you hear in this part of the world outside of transplants. But yes I don't think most people would care here. There's actually a lot of people from Chicago in OKC, so it is not completely unheard of.
I disagree. Oklahoma English is a variation of Ozark and Deep South. This has to do with the culture being heavily rooted in the Confederacy and roughly 90 percent of Oklahoma's settlement coming from the old south. It doesn't "start getting more southern" once you go to the SE quadrant. It becomes more coastal southern in that portion of the state. Texas southern has a stronger influence on the southwestern portion of Oklahoma. That variation originates almost exclusively from Tennessee(the Volunteers)
It's not a midland accent with southern vowels. That is false and makes little sense. It is a variation of the southern dialect in almost the entire state. It's what is called upland south or "Rful" southern. This version of the southern dialect originates in the Ozarks and mid Appalachian region. People know it as "hillbilly"(hence the fictitious family the Beverly Hillbillies being from Bugtussle OK in the Ozark foothills) "Rless" southern or coastal southern is what you hear in the deep south. Human migration has traditionally gone from east to west. It has only been in recent years that it starting being about north to south. Yes, it is less evident in the bigger cities, but that just means people mistake a Oklahoma City or Tulsa accent for an "Oklahoma" accent.
If you take a closer look at most of the towns and counties in Oklahoma, you will find a counterpart of that town or county in the states of Mississippi, Alabama and Georgia. Only Alabama has more Southern Baptists per capita than us. I know people in Tulsa and OKC hipsters hate having this information put in front of them, but it's important that people understand what Oklahoma is.
Last edited by johnspecial; 01-11-2013 at 11:23 AM..
First, let me let you know that I am in no way an OKC hipster. In fact, I avoid Western Avenue just because of them.
I think you misunderstand what a midlands accent is. Much like Oklahoma's culture and position on the map, the midlands is the accent for the "border south." Not quite southern, but definitely has some southern characteristics. You can have a field day with this map and this map as well. The exception to this, which both maps seem to indicate, is the SE portion of the state, and probably the NE portion of the state east of highway 75 to boot. These areas have less neutrality in their accents.
As someone who has family in both Southern Mississippi and the Mobile Alabama area, I'm a bit confused by your assertions that people in SE OK talk with a "coastal southern accent." Most of the accents down there have a bit of a Cajun influence since they are so close to the Gulf. And Southern Atlantic, low country accents sound like Paula Deen. I'm no linguistic, but definitely more of a Kentucky/Tenneseee/Northern Alabama quality to the way folks talk down in SE OK, just judging by the people I know from that area.
And no offense, but I think its important to not confuse culture and dialect. Yes, they do correlate some, but not exclusively. Lots of southerners came over on the land runs, but those families have now been here over 100 years and over time, they've been simmering in a different pot. Oklahomans have some southern characteristics, but they also do their own thing as well. And it should be pointed out a lot of towns in Oklahoma share similar names of cities down south because of the Indian Relocation.
I know in America, we love to segregate and separate things, so it must just drive people batty that they can't categorize an entire state. That's why you see tons of threads on the Oklahoma and other "border state" forums with people love to argue back and forth on where exactly a state belongs. That's what I love about Oklahoma though. Its such a unique blend of different cultures and ideas. You should embrace it!
Just like everything else, Oklahoma is a mixed bag as far as accents with southern being the most dominant one. however, I don't hear it as much in the northwest quadrant of the state as I do elsewhere in Oklahoma.
First, let me let you know that I am in no way an OKC hipster. In fact, I avoid Western Avenue just because of them.
I think you misunderstand what a midlands accent is. Much like Oklahoma's culture and position on the map, the midlands is the accent for the "border south." Not quite southern, but definitely has some southern characteristics. You can have a field day with this map and this map as well. The exception to this, which both maps seem to indicate, is the SE portion of the state, and probably the NE portion of the state east of highway 75 to boot. These areas have less neutrality in their accents.
As someone who has family in both Southern Mississippi and the Mobile Alabama area, I'm a bit confused by your assertions that people in SE OK talk with a "coastal southern accent." Most of the accents down there have a bit of a Cajun influence since they are so close to the Gulf. And Southern Atlantic, low country accents sound like Paula Deen. I'm no linguistic, but definitely more of a Kentucky/Tenneseee/Northern Alabama quality to the way folks talk down in SE OK, just judging by the people I know from that area.
And no offense, but I think its important to not confuse culture and dialect. Yes, they do correlate some, but not exclusively. Lots of southerners came over on the land runs, but those families have now been here over 100 years and over time, they've been simmering in a different pot. Oklahomans have some southern characteristics, but they also do their own thing as well. And it should be pointed out a lot of towns in Oklahoma share similar names of cities down south because of the Indian Relocation.
I know in America, we love to segregate and separate things, so it must just drive people batty that they can't categorize an entire state. That's why you see tons of threads on the Oklahoma and other "border state" forums with people love to argue back and forth on where exactly a state belongs. That's what I love about Oklahoma though. Its such a unique blend of different cultures and ideas. You should embrace it!
I stand by post and I think you are incorrect. Oklahoma is part of the South and that is the culture and dialect of the entire state. It wasn't an equal mix during the land runs and its not an equal mix now. The old south equates for over 90 percent of our settlement and is still the leading contributor to our settlement today. Here is a map you can have a field day with. I know Tulsans like to pretend they are in the midwest, but in reality they are almost in Arkansas. Our culture goes back before the land runs. It has everything to do with our alignment with the confederacy. Southerners came in droves escaping reconstruction looking for a new life and they are the foundation of what Oklahoma is today.
We can argue about portions of the state being more like Kansas or New Mexico, but in actuality, those regions lack any substantial population. The state's main communities are situated in the central, eastern and southern regions - all of which are tied to the old south. Eastern Oklahoma is exactly like western Arkasnsas and the Southeastern portion of our state is no different than the states in the deep south. Once you get north or west of Oklahoma City, there isn't much of anything to change the influences. I respect your opinion, but I embrace our southern heritage.
Oklahoma is part of the South, not Midwest. We are part of a region called the south central United States. This includes the states of Oklahoma, Texas, Arkansas and Louisiana. That is the most accurate region to place Oklahoma. It is geographically, politically, culturally and historically southern. I suggest you visit the midwest if you think Oklahoma is midwestern or think Oklahomans have a midwestern accent. I also suggest you look at the map I posted again. Oklahoma's southern accent is a variation of the Ozark hillbilly and deep south.
South midland is sometimes called "upland south" That has nothing to do with "midwest." I think one of the most irritating things on the planet are people thinking Oklahoma is anything like or part of the midwest. Another fingernails on the chalkboard misconception are the people who think most of the state is situated in the great plains. We are a land of "y'all" grits and sweet tea.
Still in doubt or denial(Tulsans) take a trip down to Broken Bow and tell them they have a "midland" accent or are midwestern. You may not make it out of there.
I live in OKC and have noticed at least half of the people here don't have an accent at all...I'm from Calif. and no one has ever asked me where I'm from due to my western accent..
And about that sweet tea; don't you mean SYRUP LADEN GOOP?...I grew up on sweet tea but I have to ask the waitress to cut it here...YIKES
I stand by post and I think you are incorrect. Oklahoma is part of the South and that is the culture and dialect of the entire state. It wasn't an equal mix during the land runs and its not an equal mix now. The old south equates for over 90 percent of our settlement and is still the leading contributor to our settlement today. Here is a map you can have a field day with. I know Tulsans like to pretend they are in the midwest, but in reality they are almost in Arkansas. Our culture goes back before the land runs. It has everything to do with our alignment with the confederacy. Southerners came in droves escaping reconstruction looking for a new life and they are the foundation of what Oklahoma is today.
We can argue about portions of the state being more like Kansas or New Mexico, but in actuality, those regions lack any substantial population. The state's main communities are situated in the central, eastern and southern regions - all of which are tied to the old south. Eastern Oklahoma is exactly like western Arkasnsas and the Southeastern portion of our state is no different than the states in the deep south. Once you get north or west of Oklahoma City, there isn't much of anything to change the influences. I respect your opinion, but I embrace our southern heritage.
I don't disagree with you completely but it is absoluetly false that 90% of the settlement in the land runs came from the south.
David Payne who organized his "Boomers" in Kansas generated a lot of attention from Northerners. Many of those people came from the northern approaches of the Land run of 1889. Then the Cherokee strip run was very similar. Conversely, a lot of the settlement from the south approach of the run of 1889 came from Texas. You can actually see this in the populations of towns like Hennessey, Kingfisher and particularly Okarche who's roots are german and czech. Those people came from the northern approaches to the land run.
Thinking of this thread I asked a woman who had been born and raised in Woodward if she felt like people in Woodward considered themselves "southern" and she said absolutely not.
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