Do Oklahomans typically have a Southern or Midwestern accent? (Tulsa: apartments, houses)

[Shane C]

The Czech businessman I was referring to was from a town in North Central Oklahoma about an hour and a half north of OKC. He talked about his paternal grandfather owning a title/abstract business in the town he lived in. So I know he was at least third generation Czech Okie. He had a Southern accent that was noticible to Nebraskans in Omaha and Lincoln. I will say his accent was Southern light, but noticible Southern. The Southern test isn't if Okies think they're Southern, but what other states would consider Okies.

[Shane C]

Whether Oklahoma was originally settled by NON Southerners doesn't change the fact that it's now Southern Light. We can discuss the how/why it became Southern Light, but this still doesn't change the fact that Okies are Southern Light. Indians aside, the South was originally settled by people of British ancestry. At some point a Southern culture evolved and British accents and mannerisms ceased. Culture isn't static. It can change over time. Oklahoma is Southern Light today, but could be Mid-West light in a few generations.

I think we're all saying the same thing, but using different terminology (semantics). I agree Oklahoma has noticible Mid-West and Western influences. This is true of any border state. When I said Southern Light, this implied Oklahoma has other cultural influences. Light implies not completely Southern. Culture is a zero sum game. If you take away part of the Southern culture, it has to be replaced with another culture or combination of cultures. Oklahoma is more Southern as a whole than Mid-West. So it makes sense to describe Okies as Southern Light instead of Mid-West Light. The bottom third of Missouri has Southern influences because it borders a Southern state.But it wouldn't make sense to describe Missouri as Southern Light because the state is mostly Mid-West.

[EddieOlSkool]

Originally Posted by Shane C

Whether Oklahoma was originally settled by NON Southerners doesn't change the fact that it's now Southern Light. We can discuss the how/why it became Southern Light, but this still doesn't change the fact that Okies are Southern Light. Indians aside, the South was originally settled by people of British ancestry. At some point a Southern culture evolved and British accents and mannerisms ceased. Culture isn't static. It can change over time. Oklahoma is Southern Light today, but could be Mid-West light in a few generations.

I think we're all saying the same thing, but using different terminology (semantics). I agree Oklahoma has noticible Mid-West and Western influences. This is true of any border state. When I said Southern Light, this implied Oklahoma has other cultural influences. Light implies not completely Southern. Culture is a zero sum game. If you take away part of the Southern culture, it has to be replaced with another culture or combination of cultures. Oklahoma is more Southern as a whole than Mid-West. So it makes sense to describe Okies as Southern Light instead of Mid-West Light. The bottom third of Missouri has Southern influences because it borders a Southern state.But it wouldn't make sense to describe Missouri as Southern Light because the state is mostly Mid-West.

British accents at no point "ceased". Language evolved by many British dialects converging to become the Southern accents.

[eddie gein]

I will totally agree that all but the northwest part of Oklahoma have a decidedly southern accent. And as you say, some in the northwest section do as well, but many do not. This is particularly true of the Mennonites in the area. However, I can see if your using people from another part of the country as your arbitrator that you could be correct that those people would discern a difference.

However, her is a dialect map that supports what I am saying to some degree.

http://big.assets.huffingtonpost.com...shDialects.gif

[EddieOlSkool]

Originally Posted by eddie gein

I will totally agree that all but the northwest part of Oklahoma have a decidedly southern accent. And as you say, some in the northwest section do as well, but many do not. This is particularly true of the Mennonites in the area. However, I can see if your using people from another part of the country as your arbitrator that you could be correct that those people would discern a difference.

However, her is a dialect map that supports what I am saying to some degree.

http://big.assets.huffingtonpost.com...shDialects.gif

The Southern accent of OK is generally mild anyway. I would compare it to many Kentucky accents outside of the Jackson Purchase region.

[Shane C]

British accents at no point "ceased". Language evolved by many British dialects converging to become the Southern accents.

You're 100% correct that the original British accents in America didn't cease, but rather evolved into Southern accents. I was just trying to avoid getting too technical about linguistics since this forum was designed for general discussions, not scholarly graduate school level discussions

I wouldn't call myself a scholar, but I have studied six languages. Some of these studies were through formal education (bachelor-doctorate) and some through self study. The British Isles used to speak with a Rhotic accent. I said British Isles generically because technically there's no such thing as a British accent. Britain is divided into England, Ireland, Scottland, and Wales. Each country has their own accent. The British Isle accents evolved from Rhotic to NON Rhotic accents over the last several hundred years. The origal settlers had a Rhotic accent because Britain had a Rhotic accent. After America was founded the British Isle accents evolved into non Rhotic accents and American accents remained Rhotic (generally speaking). This is why British and American accents are now different.

[EddieOlSkool]

Originally Posted by Shane C

You're 100% correct that the original British accents in America didn't cease, but rather evolved into Southern accents. I was just trying to avoid getting too technical about linguistics since this forum was designed for general discussions, not scholarly graduate school level discussions

I wouldn't call myself a scholar, but I have studied six languages. Some of these studies were through formal education (bachelor-doctorate) and some through self study. The British Isles used to speak with a Rhotic accent. I said British Isles generically because technically there's no such thing as a British accent. Britain is divided into England, Ireland, Scottland, and Wales. Each country has their own accent. The British Isle accents evolved from Rhotic to NON Rhotic accents over the last several hundred years. The origal settlers had a Rhotic accent because Britain had a Rhotic accent. After America was founded the British Isle accents evolved into non Rhotic accents and American accents remained Rhotic (generally speaking). This is why British and American accents are now different.

That's all well and good but even British accents don't resemble each other. Between Standard American and Standard English of Britain there are probably more similarities than between Received Pronunciation and say Geordie or Mancunian. Certainly a Norfolk accent from East Anglia deviates more from RP than even our Standard English in the US.

If both nations were as equally rhotic the standard accents wouldn't be that different.

[Shane C]

I think you're trying to go beyond the scope of this thread and forum. The original post centered on modern Oklahoma accents. Scholarly debates on linguistics throughout world history should probably be reserved for another thread/forum.

[EddieOlSkool]

Originally Posted by Shane C

I think you're trying to go beyond the scope of this thread and forum. The original post centered on modern Oklahoma accents. Scholarly debates on linguistics throughout world history should probably be reserved for another thread/forum.

Wow.

Are you serious? I am not sure why you start a discussion only to dismiss it later. No one brought up English accents until *you* did. You can't expect people to not respond to your points. Maybe don't make them?

And I did respond regarding the OK accent without referencing anything English. I said it's not a strong Southern accent. Also, many dialect maps split Oklahoma between Midwestern (Midland) and Southern accents.

[Bass&Catfish2008]

Originally Posted by Shane C

Whether Oklahoma was originally settled by NON Southerners doesn't change the fact that it's now Southern Light. We can discuss the how/why it became Southern Light, but this still doesn't change the fact that Okies are Southern Light. Indians aside, the South was originally settled by people of British ancestry. At some point a Southern culture evolved and British accents and mannerisms ceased. Culture isn't static. It can change over time. Oklahoma is Southern Light today, but could be Mid-West light in a few generations.

I think we're all saying the same thing, but using different terminology (semantics). I agree Oklahoma has noticible Mid-West and Western influences. This is true of any border state. When I said Southern Light, this implied Oklahoma has other cultural influences. Light implies not completely Southern. Culture is a zero sum game. If you take away part of the Southern culture, it has to be replaced with another culture or combination of cultures. Oklahoma is more Southern as a whole than Mid-West. So it makes sense to describe Okies as Southern Light instead of Mid-West Light. The bottom third of Missouri has Southern influences because it borders a Southern state.But it wouldn't make sense to describe Missouri as Southern Light because the state is mostly Mid-West.

You're spot on even though many of the Midwest Snoots that hate associating Oklahoma with the South in any shape, form, or fashion will disagree.

Oklahoma's accent is decidedly Southern, or a derivative of the South. Like much of North/West Texas, our accents can be quite nasally. It's a more Redneck version of the Southern accent; most Oklahomans will not speak with the aristocratic Southern accent of say a Billy Graham or others from the Southeast. Some of those accents sound a bit fakey, The Gone With The Wind types. But Oklahoma definitely has a strong Southern influence to it and the accents of the majority of Native Okies reinforces this assertion. Oklahoma has a Western/cowboy/ranching heritage making it much more SOUTHwest in its leanings, but it is still a derivative of the South like the westside of Arkansas or North/West Texas.

As far as Okies and a Midwest accent, I'm guessing it's virtually not existent unless they're relatively recent transplants or they were educated in a private school. Heck, even most Kansans and Missourians sound different than Okies (with the exception of a small sliver in NW OK like Eddie G alludes to). I was in Branson just last week and noticed that the obvious Midwesterners (like KS or MO or Iowa) had different speech patterns for the most part.