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Old 06-20-2024, 03:48 AM
 
Location: Oregon Coast
15,743 posts, read 9,470,191 times
Reputation: 20648
Quote:
Originally Posted by mhays25 View Post
This sounds like a pipe dream, devised by people who've never built or designed anything large in their lives.

The most basic question: Will thousands of people pay double the $/sf rents necessary to justify a skinny supertall, and deal with lengthy commutes to get up the elevators, and the sway that comes with any supertall, and has been causing problems in NYC? How can this be proven to any financial partners in advance?

Stubby towers might be a good idea, including housing, hotel, restaurants, and retail. The issue is the supertall component.

An observation deck is questionable as well. Even in touristy cities they don't necessarily draw huge crowds. But they need tons of support, including dedicated elevators from the ticket level to the top, taking room on every level. It would be a sketchy leap of faith.

In any case, the tower won't happen unless crazy a crazy billionaire provides most of the funding. Only then would normal financial partners get involved, and only if the terms guarantee they get paid first.
That is a good point. I like observation decks. I have always wondered why more cities don't have them. When I researched it a bit, and found that most US cities have had observation decks at one time or another, and they are less than successful. To the point where nowadays, most high rise developers don't even bother to include them.

The lifespan of an observation deck is typically pretty short. A new office tower gets built. The top floor and and maybe roof is reserved for an observation deck. Generally a ridiculously expensive restaurant is included. For the first six months big crowds mostly locals go up to take a look out the window and buy the over priced food. Then it becomes a been there done that, type of place. With in a year or two it gets converted into more office space.

Yeah sure, they are successful in big cities with lots of tourism, like New York, Chicago, and Toronto, and maybe moderately successful in cities like Seattle and Knoxville. But where are the tourist for this observation deck going to come from? If this gets built, and I come to visit it, what am I going to see from the observation deck to make it worth my time and money? I guess the extreme height could be a draw. But I have been to the top of the CN Tower, which is higher than any of these proposals. So if I did come to OKC to visit this, it wouldn't even be the highest observation tower I have visited.
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Old 06-20-2024, 08:09 AM
 
25,367 posts, read 11,781,381 times
Reputation: 48446
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloudy Dayz View Post
That is a good point. I like observation decks. I have always wondered why more cities don't have them. When I researched it a bit, and found that most US cities have had observation decks at one time or another, and they are less than successful. To the point where nowadays, most high rise developers don't even bother to include them.

The lifespan of an observation deck is typically pretty short. A new office tower gets built. The top floor and and maybe roof is reserved for an observation deck. Generally a ridiculously expensive restaurant is included. For the first six months big crowds mostly locals go up to take a look out the window and buy the over priced food. Then it becomes a been there done that, type of place. With in a year or two it gets converted into more office space.

Yeah sure, they are successful in big cities with lots of tourism, like New York, Chicago, and Toronto, and maybe moderately successful in cities like Seattle and Knoxville. But where are the tourist for this observation deck going to come from? If this gets built, and I come to visit it, what am I going to see from the observation deck to make it worth my time and money? I guess the extreme height could be a draw. But I have been to the top of the CN Tower, which is higher than any of these proposals. So if I did come to OKC to visit this, it wouldn't even be the highest observation tower I have visited.
Let's worry about it when you are in OKC.
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Old 06-22-2024, 02:21 AM
 
34,411 posts, read 20,679,064 times
Reputation: 36313
Quote:
Originally Posted by Howest2008 View Post
Shoot for the moon and if by change you miss , land among the stars.......
Very poetic, but the stars are way higher than the moon. You know I'm just messing with you. I get what you're saying Howest.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloudy Dayz View Post
One issue that bothers me about that image is that in most cities the tallest buildings are generally located right in the heart of the CBD. But this project is way on the outskirts of the CBD. If the project were to be as big a success as the developer seems to think it will be, which is hard to imagine, but if it happened, it could suck all of the business out of the CBD and turn Downtown Oklahoma City into a ghost town. People could get off the Interstate and drive right into the parking garage. Then they would have no reason to ever go Downtown anymore.

I think the city is playing with fire. This could turn into a disaster in ways they haven't even thought about.
I am retired now with the company I work for was headquartered and one of the older buildings in downtown okc. On occasion at least once a month we had to meet downtown. And it was always a treat to get out of the office around noon and walk around downtown look for a place to eat. There were always on a lot of other people, meaning office workers, who would be walking and talking and enjoying the various places to eat which most of us don't get who live in rural areas of Oklahoma. Whoever lives there or who's business is headquartered in that skyscraper will need to be fed. That in itself will be a boost to the Downtown OKC lunch scene.

Our headquarters was in a very old building downtown and they still had chutes for the US mail. And I'm told they were also chutes for trash. I think there was a thread on that at one time.

That part of downtown LA was surprisingly clean and free of homeless people. I bet the parking garages will be at a premium. All in all, I say good luck on this project.

Last edited by _redbird_; 06-22-2024 at 02:23 AM.. Reason: Lots of typos, because I'm using my cell phone hey there but I'm not going to fix them.
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Old 06-22-2024, 02:37 AM
 
34,411 posts, read 20,679,064 times
Reputation: 36313
Quote:
Originally Posted by mhays25 View Post
This sounds like a pipe dream, devised by people who've never built or designed anything large in their lives.

The most basic question: Will thousands of people pay double the $/sf rents necessary to justify a skinny supertall, and deal with lengthy commutes to get up the elevators, and the sway that comes with any supertall, and has been causing problems in NYC? How can this be proven to any financial partners in advance?

Stubby towers might be a good idea, including housing, hotel, restaurants, and retail. The issue is the supertall component.

An observation deck is questionable as well. Even in touristy cities they don't necessarily draw huge crowds. But they need tons of support, including dedicated elevators from the ticket level to the top, taking room on every level. It would be a sketchy leap of faith.

In any case, the tower won't happen unless crazy a crazy billionaire provides most of the funding. Only then would normal financial partners get involved, and only if the terms guarantee they get paid first.
Maybe a casino would be a good draw for tourists and provide a venue
for entertainment. Who knows?

I'm kind of with Howest on this one. Turn some dirt! That sounds funny as heck.

https://www.oklahoman.com/story/news...y/73194116007/
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Old 06-22-2024, 02:42 AM
 
34,411 posts, read 20,679,064 times
Reputation: 36313
Quote:
Originally Posted by eddie gein View Post
You asked for it. LOL.

Effectively, CBD part of downtown OKC is unusual. It already IS a ghost town as a retail and entertainment area. They screwed it up with urban renewal 60 years ago. Only recently with the conversion of the old First National Bank Building has their been any progress on that front in the CBD. Furthermore, they put in a tunnel system under the CBD that effectively removed day to day street traffic. In summary, the CBD will NEVER be a place where much of "the action" occurs in OKC.

Instead, the entertainment, retail and residential development all along the perimeter of downtown. And those areas boomed in every direction from the CBD. There are probably six "districts" or so surrounding downtown that provide all that kind of thing and more are coming as they develop the former industrial areas.

This building (if it is ever built) will sit between the edge of the Bricktown district next to the likely site of the new basketball arena. which is basically just southeast of the CBD. So the building will be immediately accessible to the Bricktown area, Thunder basketball, the riversports area, and the new downtown park.

I don't know how this would affect the CBD as far as any businesses moving to that building. But it would certainly be appealing to people seeking a prime residential spot close to activities down there. Again, I think most people here realize this project is way bigger than it needs to be. And I think most people fully expect it to be toned down if it is ever built at all. But as a residential/hotel/retail entertainment complex... it will fit in quite nicely if it is developed.

And I think in reality, while people realize this giant building might draw people off the highway... a more legitimate project would be more in line with a "twin tower" for the Devon building. I think that is what many people are hoping will happen.
First National Bank is where my company had their headquarters. I really enjoyed going there once a month.
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Old 06-22-2024, 06:09 AM
 
25,367 posts, read 11,781,381 times
Reputation: 48446
Quote:
Originally Posted by _redbird_ View Post
Very poetic, but the stars are way higher than the moon. You know I'm just messing with you. I get what you're saying Howest.



I am retired now with the company I work for was headquartered and one of the older buildings in downtown okc. On occasion at least once a month we had to meet downtown. And it was always a treat to get out of the office around noon and walk around downtown look for a place to eat. There were always on a lot of other people, meaning office workers, who would be walking and talking and enjoying the various places to eat which most of us don't get who live in rural areas of Oklahoma. Whoever lives there or who's business is headquartered in that skyscraper will need to be fed. That in itself will be a boost to the Downtown OKC lunch scene.

Our headquarters was in a very old building downtown and they still had chutes for the US mail. And I'm told they were also chutes for trash. I think there was a thread on that at one time.

That part of downtown LA was surprisingly clean and free of homeless people. I bet the parking garages will be at a premium. All in all, I say good luck on this project.
You wanted to say "Downtown OKC", did you not?
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Old 06-22-2024, 10:31 AM
 
Location: Oklahoma
18,029 posts, read 14,050,088 times
Reputation: 18155
Quote:
Originally Posted by _redbird_ View Post
First National Bank is where my company had their headquarters. I really enjoyed going there once a month.
They have a couple of restaurants and retail things in there now besides hotel and residential. It is pretty awesome.

It is very much a model of what Cloudy Days thinks should happen down there. But we just don't have very many buildings besides it and the Skirvin that fit that.

Most of the CBD buildings that are left from the urban renewal just don't have any character at all.
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Old 06-23-2024, 11:36 PM
 
34,411 posts, read 20,679,064 times
Reputation: 36313
Quote:
Originally Posted by Threestep2 View Post
You wanted to say "Downtown OKC", did you not?
You are correct. It's a force of habit because I spent so much time around downtown Los Angeles as a teenager.

Both my parents worked in downtown L.A. and I would go with my father and drop him off jump over a couple of blocks and pick up my mom and go back home to the suburbs. Talk about a quick lesson in driving in Los Angeles traffic! It's sink or swim.
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Old 06-23-2024, 11:42 PM
 
34,411 posts, read 20,679,064 times
Reputation: 36313
To be honest, I also feel like that great big middle finger sticking up into the sky is just a magnet for some terrorist, homegrown or not, to sink their teeth into. God forbid.

It's a morbid thought but it's kind of what I thought about when I saw the photograph of what the proposed skyscraper is supposed to look like.
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Old 06-23-2024, 11:50 PM
 
34,411 posts, read 20,679,064 times
Reputation: 36313
An observation deck is fine, but they should not try and charge money to enter it.

We used to stay at the firelake Grand Casino Hotel.
A couple of times we stayed on the 8th floor and there is just no view to look at except the flat prairie. It's not as desolate as the Texas Panhandle, but it sure ain't nothing to write home to Mom about.
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