Why are there no quality grocery stores in OKC? (Oklahoma City: coupons, buying)

[okcpulse]

Again, no one is placing any blame. It came to our attention. Kinda hard to improve the house when your neighbor cuts in line to buy the tools.

[okie1962]

Originally Posted by okcpulse

Again, no one is placing any blame. It came to our attention. Kinda hard to improve the house when your neighbor cuts in line to buy the tools.

LOL, quit blaming Tulsa for your problems. It's not Tulsa's fault that you have subpar grocery stores. In your sentence you say nobody is placing any blame, and then you turn around and say "Kinda hard to improve the house when your neighbor cuts in line to buy the tools" that would be a direct example of blaming.

[flyingcat2k]

Maybe OKC let Bentonville dictate what happened in the city for too long. It's kind of like coming to a neighborhood that advertises a lot only to find out that the choice parcels are already taken or cost an arm and a leg. There's always someone else who can make a deal up or down the road.

I will say the big empty spaces in the middle of OKC are bad planning and bad for development with re-zoning hassles and inadequate infrastructure (roads, water mains, ect). Once those are pointed out and someone likely wants an arm and a leg for those parcels which are developable, Tulsa has much more appeal. The undeveloped areas of Tulsa are largely to the east of the core towards other rural areas, not inside a ring of development. Given that GE can't easily get land for their new operation, I would say that someone or someones has a stranglehold on the market. Crony capitalism?

[okcpulse]

Originally Posted by okie1962

LOL, quit blaming Tulsa for your problems. It's not Tulsa's fault that you have subpar grocery stores. In your sentence you say nobody is placing any blame, and then you turn around and say "Kinda hard to improve the house when your neighbor cuts in line to buy the tools" that would be a direct example of blaming.

No it isn't. And I wasn't referring to grocery stores Oklahoma City was trying to land. It was related to retail. I will say that Oklahoma City has had a lot more luck with landing quality retail and grocery stores now that the new census numbers are in the hands of marketing groups.

And my remark in my last post was an attempt at humor. I thought you would find it funny.

However, you have to admit that if Tulsa heard OKC's chamber was luring retailers at Tulsa's expense, some Tulsans on this board would go rabid on OKC.

[okcpulse]

Originally Posted by flyingcat2k

Maybe OKC let Bentonville dictate what happened in the city for too long. It's kind of like coming to a neighborhood that advertises a lot only to find out that the choice parcels are already taken or cost an arm and a leg. There's always someone else who can make a deal up or down the road.

I will say the big empty spaces in the middle of OKC are bad planning and bad for development with re-zoning hassles and inadequate infrastructure (roads, water mains, ect). Once those are pointed out and someone likely wants an arm and a leg for those parcels which are developable, Tulsa has much more appeal. The undeveloped areas of Tulsa are largely to the east of the core towards other rural areas, not inside a ring of development. Given that GE can't easily get land for their new operation, I would say that someone or someones has a stranglehold on the market. Crony capitalism?

What on earth gave you that idea? No one has a stranglehold on the market. There are multiple bids happening right now for many sites in Oklahoma City, especially in Midtown, near the OU Health Sciences Center (which is where GE is looking) and the Stage Center site. Working out the deals of these real estate transactions take a lot of time and there is a lot involved since some of these bids include properties that have more than one owner.

Now back to grocers, Given that Sprouts and Whole Foods are giving local grocers a run for their money (Homeland, Buy 4 Less, Crest), Crest and Buy 4 Less have stepped up their game with the opening of a Crest Fresh Market in OKC and Uptown Grocery in Edmond. Whole Foods is looking at a second location in OKC or Edmond (Norman is out of the game) and Reasors is wanting to enter the Edmond market.

[flyingcat2k]

Originally Posted by okcpulse

What on earth gave you that idea? No one has a stranglehold on the market. There are multiple bids happening right now for many sites in Oklahoma City, especially in Midtown, near the OU Health Sciences Center (which is where GE is looking) and the Stage Center site. Working out the deals of these real estate transactions take a lot of time and there is a lot involved since some of these bids include properties that have more than one owner.

Now back to grocers, Given that Sprouts and Whole Foods are giving local grocers a run for their money (Homeland, Buy 4 Less, Crest), Crest and Buy 4 Less have stepped up their game with the opening of a Crest Fresh Market in OKC and Uptown Grocery in Edmond. Whole Foods is looking at a second location in OKC or Edmond (Norman is out of the game) and Reasors is wanting to enter the Edmond market.

So GE wants to go public before they own the site?!? I highly doubt that. Maybe they were forced by a leak? It may attempt to break some type of strong arm or disquiet rumor? Maybe the city council needs to vote on something and needs to explain why?

Big grocers, typically, want to be #1 or #2 in a market unless they are given an outside incentive to be in a market. Thus, I don't see a Kroger or Safeway coming back in the market in either city. The healthy/organic segment is growing and that growth allows Sprouts, Whole Foods, Vitamin Cottage ect, to want to enter new cities. By size, one or two grocery stores in OKC or Edmond won't make a dent in Wal-mart/Homeland duopoly but it will cut their growth. If Reasors and Whole Foods can't enter Edmond (re: zoning battles), it will be a signal to the grocery stores that their prospects are limited because of politics and money, not market forces. That would be a bad signal for the OKC metro to give to retailers like Costco.

[#1soonerfan]

Originally Posted by flyingcat2k

So GE wants to go public before they own the site?!? I highly doubt that. Maybe they were forced by a leak? It may attempt to break some type of strong arm or disquiet rumor? Maybe the city council needs to vote on something and needs to explain why?

What are you talking about? What does GE's location have to do with grocery stores?

[bchris02]

Originally Posted by flyingcat2k

Big grocers, typically, want to be #1 or #2 in a market unless they are given an outside incentive to be in a market. Thus, I don't see a Kroger or Safeway coming back in the market in either city. The healthy/organic segment is growing and that growth allows Sprouts, Whole Foods, Vitamin Cottage ect, to want to enter new cities. By size, one or two grocery stores in OKC or Edmond won't make a dent in Wal-mart/Homeland duopoly but it will cut their growth. If Reasors and Whole Foods can't enter Edmond (re: zoning battles), it will be a signal to the grocery stores that their prospects are limited because of politics and money, not market forces. That would be a bad signal for the OKC metro to give to retailers like Costco.

I agree. The only way I see Kroger ever entering this market would be if Homeland were to fail. One company or another would likely buy up their locations. Reasor's is a wildcard. It's exactly what this market needs right now and they want to enter this market, but the NIMBYs in Edmond are making it difficult for them to open their first location. If they do end up being able to build, I will do everything I can to support them.

[okie1962]

Originally Posted by okcpulse

However, you have to admit that if Tulsa heard OKC's chamber was luring retailers at Tulsa's expense, some Tulsans on this board would go rabid on OKC.

I could honestly never see this scenario playing out anywhere.

[swake]

National chains locate or not because of local situation and demographics that tell them how much money they can made. The idea that a official from another chamber of commerce will change the mind of a company on where to locate is stupid.

Demographics kill Oklahoma City. And not citywide demographics, localized demographics. There are no real "good" areas of Oklahoma City, it's too spotty.

No national chain would ever be in a situation where they can only locate in Tulsa OR Oklahoma City, if they wish they can do both at the same time. The idea that the Tulsa Chamber kills development in OKC is laughable.