[StillwaterTownie]

I don't think Oklahoma has enough in common with the South to be thought of as Southern, or mostly so, especially after that one poster complained there is little or no Southern food in Oklahoma. Oklahoma isn't mostly Southern, more like mostly Southwestern.

[Rubi3]

Haven't read all the posts, but, wonder why there is any question about this. I'm a born and bred, well educated and well traveled Okie. Southwestern Oklahoma is a great place to live.

[GraniteStater]

Originally Posted by swake

Tulsa's latitude is not that far south. We are about as far south as Virginia Beach, not Miami. Part of this is daylight savings but in the summer it will be light past 9:00 and in December it will get dark before 5:30, that's a pretty good shift.

Tulsa's latitude is much further south than any country in Europe and is the same as Knoxville, TN or Asheville, NC.

I'm at 43.3N and the seasonal changes in daylight between summer and winter are far more pronounced. Sunrise is 4:30AM at the height of summer and Sunset is 4:00PM in the dead of winter.

[Han$ome Texan]

Originally Posted by Johnhw2

Oklahoma is like Texas more than another part of the US imho. Texas doesnt fit those national designations either. We arent southern in my view, we arent midwest we might be more southwest than those

i highly disagree with that statement

[Goodpasture]

I really wish some of you so-called geographers would learn a little Oklahoma History. We are NOT southern. We are NOT midwestern. We are NOT southwestern. We are OKLAHOMA.......unique and different from any state in the nation. We tend to be socially liberal, fiscally conservative. An Oklahoma Democrat is more conservative than an east or west coast Tea Party member. the eastern half of the state is a strange mix of cowboy, indian, and african american. If you turn off the lights you can't tell what you are dealing with and often the person you are talking to is all three at the same time. The african americans are more independent than just about any others in the nation. They have a hundred and fifty years of entrepreneurship and self sufficiency. The native americans are men and women with a 14,000 year history where not only are women equal to the men, but often exceed men in rights and respect. My own ancestor, Nancy Ward, not only was a Beloved Woman, but a war chief and a Daughter of the American Revolution. The descendents of Europe that are born here come from roughnecks, drillers, ranchers and cowboys. We have a fabulous combination of conservative businessmen and extreme risk takers and gamblers. Throw that into a melting pot consisting of instant wealth, incredible talent, and a drive to succeed and you have a culture that is unique to any other place in the world. Even our crooks are among the most creative around......that's why Ma Barker, Pretty Boy Floyd, Tom Starr, Henry Starr and all the rest are famous still today.

Defining Oklahoma using geography is simply one of the dumbest things I've ever witnessed.

[swake]

Originally Posted by GraniteStater

Tulsa's latitude is much further south than any country in Europe and is the same as Knoxville, TN or Asheville, NC.

I'm at 43.3N and the seasonal changes in daylight between summer and winter are far more pronounced. Sunrise is 4:30AM at the height of summer and Sunset is 4:00PM in the dead of winter.

You said "far southern". Tulsa would lie at the northern edge of any state that could be called "southern", Tulsa is well north of every state in the old "Deep South"

The south has great tall Pine trees and Sycamores. As you get close to the coast there are palm trees. The south is hot and very humid with rain all year long and it rarely freezes and almost never snows. The south has peat moss and kudzu and clapboard houses. The south has great old cities that are often very run down in the older parts of town. The south has a great kinship to the old confederacy and some serious racial issues.

Some of far southern Oklahoma is a little like this, but that's it.

Tulsa is a young city like the southwestern cities with little history before the 20th century. We don't have large older areas of town that are largely abandoned because the city is not old enough to have that. The area gets snow every year, sometimes a lot of it. Most days in the winter we go below freezing. Sometimes we go below zero. Oklahoma doesn't get constant rains all year like the south, but we get the great towering thunderstorms of the plains in the spring and fall. The kind of storms the south almost never gets. Our rivers aren't constantly full like southern rivers, they are braided plains rivers. We have Oak, Cedar and Maple trees like you see in the lower Midwest, not tall Pines. We have Mistletoe instead of Peat Moss or Kudzu. We don't have the bugs that the south has. There is no memory of or link to the Confederacy here.

This isn't the South. Nothing like it. Tulsa has little in common with Jackson, Memphis or Little Rock and a lot in common with Kansas City and Omaha, but with a dash of Dallas or Ft Worth (which are also NOT southern cities). Oklahoma City has a lot in common with Dallas and Ft Worth with a dash of Kansas City tossed in.

[Bass&Catfish2008]

Originally Posted by swake

You said "far southern". Tulsa would lie at the northern edge of any state that could be called "southern", Tulsa is well north of every state in the old "Deep South"

The south has great tall Pine trees and Sycamores. As you get close to the coast there are palm trees. The south is hot and very humid with rain all year long and it rarely freezes and almost never snows. The south has peat moss and kudzu and clapboard houses. The south has great old cities that are often very run down in the older parts of town. The south has a great kinship to the old confederacy and some serious racial issues.

Some of far southern Oklahoma is a little like this, but that's it.

Tulsa is a young city like the southwestern cities with little history before the 20th century. We don't have large older areas of town that are largely abandoned because the city is not old enough to have that. The area gets snow every year, sometimes a lot of it. Most days in the winter we go below freezing. Sometimes we go below zero. Oklahoma doesn't get constant rains all year like the south, but we get the great towering thunderstorms of the plains in the spring and fall. The kind of storms the south almost never gets. Our rivers aren't constantly full like southern rivers, they are braided plains rivers. We have Oak, Cedar and Maple trees like you see in the lower Midwest, not tall Pines. We have Mistletoe instead of Peat Moss or Kudzu. We don't have the bugs that the south has. There is no memory of or link to the Confederacy here.

This isn't the South. Nothing like it. Tulsa has little in common with Jackson, Memphis or Little Rock and a lot in common with Kansas City and Omaha, but with a dash of Dallas or Ft Worth (which are also NOT southern cities). Oklahoma City has a lot in common with Dallas and Ft Worth with a dash of Kansas City tossed in.

>>>>>
Tulsa is a young city like the southwestern cities with little history before the 20th century.
<<<<<

That's probably about right. Tulsa is more like a SouthXSouthwest city than Midwestern. Oklahoma as a whole is really a "gateway" to several different regions. Not too much to quibble over here. I know many Texans that would argue that DFW is Southern in its own right though. I've always preferred South-Central as a geographical tag for OK/TX because both state do defy topographical traits of the typical Deep South and are just too different culturally with states to the North to be part of the Midwest. This is why no respected/official map has ever listed OK or TX (they fit together) as part of the Midwest....even if there is a touch of Midwestern mixed in there in the far North of both states (perhaps a dash in the panhandle of TX).

While I agree much of the topography is different in Oklahoma/Texas I would still say that the culture is a more of a mixture of Southern/Southwestern/or more Western than anything else, which would make it different in some ways from KC/Omaha. Tulsa and OK City are not culturally (dialect/Southern Baptist enclaves/food/music/crazy college football culture, etc.) akin to the cities in the true Midwest.

But, as many have reiterated throughout the thread, Oklahoma can't be boxed in and labeled like other states because it is so unique.....so, at the end of the day I'm fine just calling it, well........Oklahoma.

[e_cuyler]

The Midwest doesn't have crazy college football culture???? Ever hear of Ohio State and Michigan?

I've always been in favor of the idea that Oklahoma is its own unique animal with dashes of various other regions being more or less prominent depending on where you are in the state. Not crazy about most of the arguments saying the state is Southern, Midwestern, etc. A large number of the things that people trot out to point to the state being Southern are also widely popular in other parts of the country and are more affiliated with rural-based culture than any particular region of the country. Big pickup trucks, high school football, and biscuits and gravy are all really popular here where I live in California.

[Bass&Catfish2008]

Originally Posted by e_cuyler

The Midwest doesn't have crazy college football culture???? Ever hear of Ohio State and Michigan?

I've always been in favor of the idea that Oklahoma is its own unique animal with dashes of various other regions being more or less prominent depending on where you are in the state. Not crazy about most of the arguments saying the state is Southern, Midwestern, etc. A large number of the things that people trot out to point to the state being Southern are also widely popular in other parts of the country and are more affiliated with rural-based culture than any particular region of the country. Big pickup trucks, high school football, and biscuits and gravy are all really popular here where I live in California.

Does Cali have a lot of folks that possess a Southern/Okie twang a lot like we do in these parts? Lots of Southern Baptists? Lots of country music stars that are still making hits and on the radio?

No on all accounts (except for a few of the old Okies/Arkies left out on Beer Can Hill in Bakersfield)....I lived out there on the West Coast for a while so I know how the states are different culturally. Let me say I'm glad to live back in Oklahoma.

[e_cuyler]

California is so big that it does not have one dominant culture. There's even a big difference from large city to large city, and outside the cities there's an even bigger difference.

Country music is really popular in the central part of the state [actually a big part of the state.] I think my town has at least three country stations and all the top country acts come here every year. We also have a lot of rodeos, but rodeo I guess is more Western than Southern.

About the only thing we don't have here is a large number of Southern Baptists, but there are a ton of large non-denomination evangelical churches. The city I live in is basically the same as Tulsa, just with more Catholics and with agriculture being the primary industry.