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Old 12-22-2013, 08:38 PM
 
Location: USA
7,778 posts, read 11,014,509 times
Reputation: 11777

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Quote:
Originally Posted by eddie gein View Post
Because on the national forums TexasReb has declared that "Southwestern" is strictly Arizona and New Mexico................

So all that "southwestern" you "feel" is obviously wrong. You know, the cattle, the cowboys, the great plains, the buffalo, the history of the plains indians, the cattle ranches, the feed lots, the boulder strewn rugged Wichita mountains, the mesas of the western panhandle, the mesquite trees, and cactus of southwestern Oklahoma are all "southern". The wheat fields that blend into western Kansas and the Germans, Czechs, Mennonites who farm them and mostly came from points north as pioneers to raise it..........all "southern".
Hmm... Thanks, Eddie Gein. Some declarations are meaningless to my way of thinking.
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Old 12-23-2013, 08:14 AM
 
Location: IN
22,409 posts, read 39,030,113 times
Reputation: 14933
Quote:
Originally Posted by eddie gein View Post
Because on the national forums TexasReb has declared that "Southwestern" is strictly Arizona and New Mexico................

So all that "southwestern" you "feel" is obviously wrong. You know, the cattle, the cowboys, the great plains, the buffalo, the history of the plains indians, the cattle ranches, the feed lots, the boulder strewn rugged Wichita mountains, the mesas of the western panhandle, the mesquite trees, and cactus of southwestern Oklahoma are all "southern". The wheat fields that blend into western Kansas and the Germans, Czechs, Mennonites who farm them and mostly came from points north as pioneers to raise it..........all "southern".
Those people a bit to the north generally got a good value on land for next to nothing and was spurred by the Federal Government in the 1860s and the development of railroads. It didn't mean that it was superior land for farming as the climate there is very marginal at best and on the periphery of the southwest with precipitation that is often highly unreliable. No, the northern European settlers generally made a mistake settling so far south in latitude and should have mainly looked at areas well north of 40N latitude like many of their relatives did. The difference is the northern areas have far lower rates of evapotranspiration due to the more moderate sun angle, Summer temperatures that are less, and precipitation that is more reliable.
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Old 12-23-2013, 09:09 AM
 
Location: USA
7,778 posts, read 11,014,509 times
Reputation: 11777
Quote:
Originally Posted by GraniteStater View Post
Those people a bit to the north generally got a good value on land for next to nothing and was spurred by the Federal Government in the 1860s and the development of railroads. It didn't mean that it was superior land for farming as the climate there is very marginal at best and on the periphery of the southwest with precipitation that is often highly unreliable. No, the northern European settlers generally made a mistake settling so far south in latitude and should have mainly looked at areas well north of 40N latitude like many of their relatives did. The difference is the northern areas have far lower rates of evapotranspiration due to the more moderate sun angle, Summer temperatures that are less, and precipitation that is more reliable.
Are you explaining something specific or just making a post about people a bit to the north of somewhere?
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Old 12-23-2013, 11:58 AM
 
Location: Tulsa, OK
2,572 posts, read 3,776,960 times
Reputation: 2412
Oklahoma is not really South, Midwest or Southwest. Oklahoma is where these regions all come together. I think Oklahoma could be best described as Paisley.
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Old 12-23-2013, 02:44 PM
 
Location: NorCal by way of L.A. and Atlanta
96 posts, read 112,486 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by okie1962 View Post
Oklahoma is not really South, Midwest or Southwest. Oklahoma is where these regions all come together. I think Oklahoma could be best described as Paisley.
Good point! Also come to think about it, it mind as well be a border state since it borders Arkansas, and Northeast Texas which is, The South, borders Kansas and southwestern Missouri which is, The Midwest, and the pan handle of Oklahoma that borders the Texas pan handle, the southeastern tip of Colorado, and the northeastern tip of New Mexico which is, The West
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Old 12-24-2013, 03:20 PM
 
Location: OKIE-Ville
5,484 posts, read 8,304,831 times
Reputation: 3171
Quote:
Originally Posted by okie1962 View Post
Oklahoma is not really South, Midwest or Southwest. Oklahoma is where these regions all come together. I think Oklahoma could be best described as Paisley.
Your point stands to some extent if you're referring to topography/geography.

If you're looking at the inquiry from a cultural norm and value-system standpoint (as I often do) then it is undeniable that Oklahoma, over the vast majority of the state (with the exception of a few of some of our more uppity contingent) is Southern through and through. This is culturally speaking, of course.

I can definitely see Oklahoma as a crossroads of the South and the Southwest....and I think this is probably one of the better designations as in SOUTHwest (Oklahoma/Texas) verses SouthWEST (New Mexico/Arizona).

The Midwest moniker is the most puzzling to me from a cultural standpoint. Ask any true Midwesterner (for example from Whiskey/MN/MI/Ohio/Indiana/Illinois/Iowa even NE/KS) and you would rarely, if ever, get Oklahoma as an inclusion in what comprises the Midwest; the Census certainly does not (for several reasons). When I see people dialoguing about this particular issue on the Oklahoma Forum I tell them to go over to the General Forum and look through the plethora of threads regarding the Midwest. Again, rarely, if ever, will you see Oklahoma included in the discussion. Those from actual and undeniable Midwest states do not consider Oklahoma as an affiliate.

Oddly enough, there have been just a few folks that I've encountered in my life who called Oklahoma the Midwest. The funny thing is they also called Texas and Arkansas and Louisiana the Midwest. Clearly wrong-headed. It was when I lived on the West Coast and it was just a handful of people....2 or 3 maybe? Most from the West Coast considered Oklahoma/Texas as part of the South, or an extension of the Greater South. I've also shared the example of a reporter from California who referred to Mississippi as the Midwest. I think some people on the West Coast, in general, just think of anything in Middle America as lumped together when it comes to regional designations, and very little thought is given to overarching culture. That's all I can gather. One thing that is clear beyond reasonable doubt, whatever Oklahoma is, it is not the Midwest.

For Oklahoma, I like SouthXSouthwest, SOUTHwest, South-Central, or just the Southern Plains (although a huge chunk of Oklahoma is not the Plains).
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Old 12-24-2013, 03:53 PM
 
Location: Oklahoma City
374 posts, read 706,002 times
Reputation: 239
I honestly do not understand why people from the west coast think this is the midwest. That never made any sense to me.
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Old 12-24-2013, 03:54 PM
 
Location: Oklahoma City
374 posts, read 706,002 times
Reputation: 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaliWestCoast View Post
Good point! Also come to think about it, it mind as well be a border state since it borders Arkansas, and Northeast Texas which is, The South, borders Kansas and southwestern Missouri which is, The Midwest, and the pan handle of Oklahoma that borders the Texas pan handle, the southeastern tip of Colorado, and the northeastern tip of New Mexico which is, The West
Go to southeastern Oklahoma and tell them they are anything but southern. You may not make it out.
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Old 12-24-2013, 05:30 PM
 
Location: Tulsa, OK
2,572 posts, read 3,776,960 times
Reputation: 2412
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bass&Catfish2008 View Post
Your point stands to some extent if you're referring to topography/geography.

If you're looking at the inquiry from a cultural norm and value-system standpoint (as I often do) then it is undeniable that Oklahoma, over the vast majority of the state (with the exception of a few of some of our more uppity contingent) is Southern through and through. This is culturally speaking, of course.

I can definitely see Oklahoma as a crossroads of the South and the Southwest....and I think this is probably one of the better designations as in SOUTHwest (Oklahoma/Texas) verses SouthWEST (New Mexico/Arizona).

The Midwest moniker is the most puzzling to me from a cultural standpoint. Ask any true Midwesterner (for example from Whiskey/MN/MI/Ohio/Indiana/Illinois/Iowa even NE/KS) and you would rarely, if ever, get Oklahoma as an inclusion in what comprises the Midwest; the Census certainly does not (for several reasons). When I see people dialoguing about this particular issue on the Oklahoma Forum I tell them to go over to the General Forum and look through the plethora of threads regarding the Midwest. Again, rarely, if ever, will you see Oklahoma included in the discussion. Those from actual and undeniable Midwest states do not consider Oklahoma as an affiliate.

Oddly enough, there have been just a few folks that I've encountered in my life who called Oklahoma the Midwest. The funny thing is they also called Texas and Arkansas and Louisiana the Midwest. Clearly wrong-headed. It was when I lived on the West Coast and it was just a handful of people....2 or 3 maybe? Most from the West Coast considered Oklahoma/Texas as part of the South, or an extension of the Greater South. I've also shared the example of a reporter from California who referred to Mississippi as the Midwest. I think some people on the West Coast, in general, just think of anything in Middle America as lumped together when it comes to regional designations, and very little thought is given to overarching culture. That's all I can gather. One thing that is clear beyond reasonable doubt, whatever Oklahoma is, it is not the Midwest.

For Oklahoma, I like SouthXSouthwest, SOUTHwest, South-Central, or just the Southern Plains (although a huge chunk of Oklahoma is not the Plains).
Who in the hell thinks Louisiana or Mississippi are in the Midwest??? I hope they weren't trying to sell you a bridge! I must say in my entire life never heard anyone thinking Louisiana and Mississippi were in the midwest. You must have hung out with some pretty dim bulbs out there in the "Golden State".
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Old 12-24-2013, 05:34 PM
 
Location: Tulsa, OK
2,572 posts, read 3,776,960 times
Reputation: 2412
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnspecial View Post
I honestly do not understand why people from the west coast think this is the midwest. That never made any sense to me.
Most places I have been think Oklahoma is part of the midwest. They think Dust Bowl, tornados, flat, dull, wheat, and the wind comes sweeping down the plains, Grapes of Wrath.
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