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Old 06-09-2014, 04:19 PM
 
34,254 posts, read 20,451,991 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by linicx View Post
Oklahoma should have a Native American Mueum in the middle of the state that is funded by the tribes and built by its members. Chief Splitlog built a church for his wife with his own funds before OK attained statehood. It still stands to serve the faithful. It was a member of the Cherokee Tribe that inspired the use of federal funds to create the dam at Grand Lake that electrified NE OK for the first time. Today it sells power to neighbor states and beyond.

Last year I spent hours talking to several of the OK Principal Chiefs for a project. They were foreword thinking, innovative, and they accomplished goals. I think if all the tribes could get past the in-fighting and fears to reach a consensus it would put people to work and produce something all the king's horses and all the king's men could never imagine. I'm pretty sure if I can find an NA doctor, I can find an architect, and a general contractor too.

This is not rocket science. It is asking all to set aside old history to work together for the benefit of all. Equal contribution is not about funding; it's not possible, and there is more than one way to contribute. The tribe that built the golf course, may be poor, but surely it can landscape, plant trees and grass, and plan a parking area. Donated land is a contribution, too. When it is finished, every proud OK trible should set their mark in stone - not one greater than another.

People will come. The Inn of the Mountain Gods in New Mexico was the result of an inspiration by one Chief in one small tribe. It put high school kids to work and let them earn their way into college degrees. The story is inspiring. The Chief proved to his skeptics that the impossible was indeed possible.
I agree. Good post.
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Old 06-17-2014, 01:22 PM
 
16 posts, read 37,124 times
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Thank you for the most recent responses. I was rather surprised by the initial responses that my question received. It was an honest question with no bias or prejudice. I do appreciate native American culture and recognize the important roles that have played out in our state and national history. All that aside, the center must be paid for in some manner. Some one had a dream to construct the center but obviously fell short in the funding of the project. Lacking funds for the completion, construction has stopped and buildings vacated for some time. Empty buildings have become somewhat of an eye sore. Tax payers where asked to bail out the project. At some point the question must be asked how much is too much. Only so much money can be expected to be drained from tax payers. The original group or individuals whose dream it was to build this center must at some point realize that this has become a failure or regroup and dig deep within their own pockets for the completion of this project.
Personally I look forward to see the completion of this cultural center. I recognize that it could be a great tourist attraction as well as chance to educate /preserve our history, and completely self sustaining in revenue generation. Do I want to pay for it through my taxes, NO. I would much rather politics stay out of this matter and allow tribes or individuals solve the financing of this center.
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Old 06-17-2014, 03:29 PM
 
Location: Both sides of the Red River
778 posts, read 2,312,223 times
Reputation: 1121
Don't be suprised if the City of OKC seizes the deed for this property. The city gave the land to the state for $1 with the promise they would fufill their obligation to build it. Since they have not, the city council has talked about taking the land back since the state is technically in violation of its contract. So that will be $80 million down the drain for the state of OK.

If this were to happen, it could probably be finished with some municipal funds and private donations albeit at a very scaled down scale. I trust the city of OKC to do what they say compared to the clown show that is the OK State House. They pulled the same crap with the National Cowboy Hall of Fame in OKC...it took years to finish it. That's how the "conservatives" in this state operate.

I think its important to note that the tribes really were ambivalent towards this museum. This was something the state wanted to boost tourism, but most of the tribes wanted their own cultural centers where they can control it, not unlike what the Chickasaws have in Sulphur. So I think its a bit unfair to ask them to pony up cash for something they didn't want. The state needs to pony up to its obligation or sell it to someone who knows what they are doing.
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Old 06-17-2014, 06:09 PM
 
Location: Not where you ever lived
11,535 posts, read 30,104,201 times
Reputation: 6422
OKC building failed because it was not about culture. It's about the green-backed dollar being funneled into the largest city in Oklahoma. It is not uncommon when one city dominates a state. At the very least it was unfair to the balance of the state, not to mention its many tribes.

Clearly the tribal members have the ability to build a simple multi-use cultural center. Once the nations come together, which will take a lot of work, the dream can become a reality. But to do so they have to set aside stubbornness, and old grievances, to act as one. If it comes to fruition it will be on tribal land. It will not be on city or state owned land, or land leased for 100-years for a dollar. It will be the forever home. I can envision the dream with a center and the wildlife refuge and preserve nearby.

Wouldn't it be nice to see the art work on the walls, and hear the children as they learn to drum? I think it would be as awesome as the stories the elders tell.

If one chief can build one church, then many acting as one can build a dream. I take all these things for granted as others did it before you. I know this because I grew up with it in a place that existed long before the bird evolved.
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Old 06-17-2014, 08:06 PM
 
Location: Both sides of the Red River
778 posts, read 2,312,223 times
Reputation: 1121
Quote:
Originally Posted by linicx View Post
OKC building failed because it was not about culture. It's about the green-backed dollar being funneled into the largest city in Oklahoma. It is not uncommon when one city dominates a state. At the very least it was unfair to the balance of the state, not to mention its many tribes.

Clearly the tribal members have the ability to build a simple multi-use cultural center. Once the nations come together, which will take a lot of work, the dream can become a reality. But to do so they have to set aside stubbornness, and old grievances, to act as one. If it comes to fruition it will be on tribal land. It will not be on city or state owned land, or land leased for 100-years for a dollar. It will be the forever home. I can envision the dream with a center and the wildlife refuge and preserve nearby.

Wouldn't it be nice to see the art work on the walls, and hear the children as they learn to drum? I think it would be as awesome as the stories the elders tell.

If one chief can build one church, then many acting as one can build a dream. I take all these things for granted as others did it before you. I know this because I grew up with it in a place that existed long before the bird evolved.
With all due respect I disagree with a lot of this.

Let me just say before I relocated a few months ago I worked with the tribes in obtaining mineral rights for over 5 years, and it was a rather eye opening experience. Maybe its made me a little jaded LOL.

I don't understand the quip about OKC. Again let me reiterate this was a state project with an eye towards tourism. I can't even say with clarity that the tribes were even consulted on this. The plurality of out of state tourism dollars are spent in OKC...that's a fact. Sorry, but the amount of anti-OKC propaganda on this forum is so over the top and largely baseless, as if Mick Cornett and Larry Nichols are hid out on the top of Devon Tower conspiring how to screw the rest of the state. It's a big reason I stopped posting on here for the longest.

The largest of the tribes...and when I say tribes I mean tribal governments not members...are far more profit driven and entrepreneurial than you would think. I can't even be mad at them though.

The tribes did not want this museum because of conflicts or that its in OKC or whatever some on here are claiming. They want their own cultural centers because they make money off of them. They wouldn't make diddly squat on a museum controlled by the state. Simple as that, really. In the HIGHLY unlikely event they could get into some sort of agreement, the tribes aren't going to want to do anything with a organization like the OK state government, who couldn't manage their way out of a wet paper bag. The Chickasaws have already done so, and you wouldn't believe how many commercials they air in DFW where I am now living. Again..they are all about making that dolla dolla bill yall.

You would think I am slamming the tribes here as greedy and ruthless....I am not. If anything I think they are quite savvy. Its certainly not as if the tribes and their members have been on the winning side of history. And in the end the tribes have been good overall for the state and their members. But I have to call a spade a spade. And its why I don't really have a lot of hope for what could have been a very cool museum.

Follow the money....you can figure out the vast majority of the things in this world with that mantra.

Last edited by #1soonerfan; 06-17-2014 at 09:13 PM..
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Old 06-18-2014, 03:03 PM
 
Location: Not where you ever lived
11,535 posts, read 30,104,201 times
Reputation: 6422
I spent a few hours with some of the Chiefs in NE OK. You bet they are educated and savvy and want the best for their members and tribal lands. I would much rather see the tribes benefit 100% from a cultural museum they design and build, than let any state benefit one cent. I lived too long in Oklahoma to believe the state will benefit any except the state. And chances are anything the state builds will be Hollywood mess of eye candy and trinkets.

There is no question as to the many tribes in Oklahoma with members who have the ability to make a culture center a reality. The BIG question: Is there is a consensus and a will to build it?
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Old 06-19-2014, 03:39 PM
 
1,835 posts, read 2,197,887 times
Reputation: 2445
Quote:
Originally Posted by #1soonerfan View Post
With all due respect I disagree with a lot of this.

Let me just say before I relocated a few months ago I worked with the tribes in obtaining mineral rights for over 5 years, and it was a rather eye opening experience. Maybe its made me a little jaded LOL.

I don't understand the quip about OKC. Again let me reiterate this was a state project with an eye towards tourism. I can't even say with clarity that the tribes were even consulted on this. The plurality of out of state tourism dollars are spent in OKC...that's a fact. Sorry, but the amount of anti-OKC propaganda on this forum is so over the top and largely baseless, as if Mick Cornett and Larry Nichols are hid out on the top of Devon Tower conspiring how to screw the rest of the state. It's a big reason I stopped posting on here for the longest.

The largest of the tribes...and when I say tribes I mean tribal governments not members...are far more profit driven and entrepreneurial than you would think. I can't even be mad at them though.

The tribes did not want this museum because of conflicts or that its in OKC or whatever some on here are claiming. They want their own cultural centers because they make money off of them. They wouldn't make diddly squat on a museum controlled by the state. Simple as that, really. In the HIGHLY unlikely event they could get into some sort of agreement, the tribes aren't going to want to do anything with a organization like the OK state government, who couldn't manage their way out of a wet paper bag. The Chickasaws have already done so, and you wouldn't believe how many commercials they air in DFW where I am now living. Again..they are all about making that dolla dolla bill yall.

You would think I am slamming the tribes here as greedy and ruthless....I am not. If anything I think they are quite savvy. Its certainly not as if the tribes and their members have been on the winning side of history. And in the end the tribes have been good overall for the state and their members. But I have to call a spade a spade. And its why I don't really have a lot of hope for what could have been a very cool museum.

Follow the money....you can figure out the vast majority of the things in this world with that mantra.
This is completely correct, and let’s be clear here. The tribes have a clear mission, to improve the lives of tribal members and secondarily to ensure the survival of tribal culture and language among tribal members. A museum for mostly white tourists in Oklahoma City (which isn’t inside or even really near the national boundaries of any of the tribes) does nothing towards these missions.

The museum can build awareness of tribal culture outside the tribes and can build good will, and while that is a positive it doesn't really further the real tribal missions. The tribes will help to a degree with maybe small amounts of money and will provide content and expertise but in the end what is intended to a tourist center in Oklahoma City is in no way FOR the tribes or their members and therefore isn’t their problem or responsibility.
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Old 06-20-2014, 06:04 PM
 
Location: Not where you ever lived
11,535 posts, read 30,104,201 times
Reputation: 6422
Swake, your are absolutely correct.

This has been slightly amended slightly with *___* to make a point. The sole purpose OKC building was to funnel tourist dollars to OKC and for no other reason. Rather than honor, it is a slap in the face.


Quote:
Originally Posted by swake View Post
This is completely correct, and let’s be clear here. The tribes *may* help to a degree with maybe small amounts of money and *may* provide content and expertise. But in the end what is intended to a tourist center in Oklahoma City is in no way FOR the tribes or their members and therefore isn’t their problem or responsibility.
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