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Old 04-03-2018, 02:01 AM
 
Location: Seattle Eastside
640 posts, read 366,692 times
Reputation: 1485

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Quote:
Originally Posted by SluggoF16 View Post
I shouldn't have used the term "free". However, there is an allowance for healthcare premiums. My wife uses HealthChoice to supplement my program. The state allows ~$700 a month for premium coverage... go over, and the employee is responsible for the difference. If one is a military or retiree or one has a spouse who already has coverage, then that can be deferred, but the allowance goes back to the state and there is no extra money per paycheck. So use it. That's my case, and my BIL's, but the HealthChoice covers what FEHB or Tri-Care doesn't.


Bold emphasis: My SIL would rather the funds be diverted to textbooks, classrooms, and curriculum improvements.
Sorry, that is not even the basic minimum allowed by most professional jobs requiring a master's degree. My partner and I get way more than that and we have fewer years of education than a teacher.

I understand that many people in the US have less, but do are they building human capital for the future? Do they have graduate degrees?

The way we treat teachers in this country is stunning.

That said, Oklahoma is not alone. The numbers are low because of low COL but teacher salaries and benefits are a disgrace across most of the nation.
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Old 04-03-2018, 02:23 AM
 
Location: Stillwater, Oklahoma
18,013 posts, read 14,334,567 times
Reputation: 5450
Numbers are low because of low COL? That doesn't sound right, since the cost of living is so high in Oklahoma some teachers have to get 2nd jobs and hope there's a job to find during the summer. Considering how many Oklahomans are struggling to live from paycheck to paycheck or have 2nd and 3rd jobs, that the low cost of living in Oklahoma is somehow a very good thing doesn't make much sense to me.

The pay is so low, because teachers and education are not as highly valued as they are in other states. Also a lot of Oklahomans feel too poor to feel like paying more sales taxes, already among the highest in the nation. That was quite well reflected as true when Oklahoma voters turned down a 1 cent hike in the sales tax for higher teacher pay and education. David Boren, who should have known better as an old professional politician, led that failed effort. No more tax hikes should be voted upon by the people unless they won't effect most people. The petition for SQ795 is one example, since it would raise GPT on oil companies to 7% to give teachers a $4000 raise. But who knows it if can first get the required signatures of around 125,000?

Last edited by StillwaterTownie; 04-03-2018 at 02:49 AM..
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Old 04-03-2018, 06:27 AM
 
641 posts, read 842,291 times
Reputation: 864
Apparently Oklahoma is just one large oil lease which we have all been permitted to live on. We just thought it was a state.

I don't know which side is more irritating- the state legislature who let this problem get this bad, or the leftist OWS/BLM style "teachers" we have here in Tulsa. I almost wish both sides could lose, fire them all and start over.
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Old 04-03-2018, 06:31 AM
 
7,294 posts, read 4,952,011 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SluggoF16 View Post
Interesting link. My sister-in-law teaches in the Moore SD and there she is, on a spreadsheet. It's what she said she gets paid, less than $40K annually. My wife is a state employee, too, what's not being said is the value of those fringe benefits... free healthcare, a nice bennie.

My SIL said this weekend that the raise is nice, but there are two problems that really need to be fixed, in her opinion. She doesn't like the administrative bureaucracy layers, with redundant personnel overseeing the school systems. Cut some of them out. (Her opinion isn't alone, she says.)

More importantly, and this HAS to be frustrating for a teacher, whether in Oklahoma of Connecticut or Oregon or anywhere, and she's been talking about this for over a decade: parental support. Or rather, non-support. Every year parents are given a list of supplies they need, some required, some optional. And every year Smedley comes to class with a brand new backpack, an iPhone, a couple USB cables and chargers, and nothing else. When this is pointed out, the answer varies, but the basic response is, "So? You're the teacher, then teach them." Economics, demographics, political affiliation don't matter. I feel for her, it's frustrating to do what she does to be slammed on one side by the state and the other by a fairly significant population of parents, who either don't care, or care too much (i.e. their kid isn't the problem). She knows she can't do much about them. In the end, she spends a lot of time and her own money (almost $1100 last year) fixing the problem. Her thoughts: take half the raise and use it to improve the classrooms and get her the tools she needs, as a primary grade teacher, to do her job.
I just don’t get why it becomes the teachers problem when parents don’t provide the needed supplies! The school should have to do so. If it’s such a big problem then increase the per pupil monies to include supplies. Yes, taxes (homeowner or state) may have to go up, but it’s the school that’s responsible for making sure kids have the needed supplies not the teachers. Your SIL should not have to spend $1100 of her money. When did we start thinking this is ok??
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Old 04-03-2018, 06:53 AM
 
Location: SW OK (AZ Native)
18,119 posts, read 8,145,654 times
Reputation: 7672
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neerwhal View Post
Sorry, that is not even the basic minimum allowed by most professional jobs requiring a master's degree. My partner and I get way more than that and we have fewer years of education than a teacher.

I understand that many people in the US have less, but do are they building human capital for the future? Do they have graduate degrees?

The way we treat teachers in this country is stunning.

That said, Oklahoma is not alone. The numbers are low because of low COL but teacher salaries and benefits are a disgrace across most of the nation.
The roughly $700 monthly is what the employee gets as an allowance for insurance. My wife, state employee in another neglected department (mental health), gets enough to cover her insurance for essentially nothing. Since she's added vision and dental she ends up, like my SIL, paying a few dollars monthly for healthcare premiums. Start adding more dependents and the deduction from the salary becomes a negative number, but for many teachers, especially those with an alternately-insured spouse, there is no net cost.


A single parent with a couple of dependents will lose money, though, since the allowance would have to be on the order of $1200 a month to cover it.
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Old 04-03-2018, 07:13 AM
 
Location: SW OK (AZ Native)
18,119 posts, read 8,145,654 times
Reputation: 7672
Quote:
Originally Posted by UNC4Me View Post
I just don’t get why it becomes the teachers problem when parents don’t provide the needed supplies! The school should have to do so. If it’s such a big problem then increase the per pupil monies to include supplies. Yes, taxes (homeowner or state) may have to go up, but it’s the school that’s responsible for making sure kids have the needed supplies not the teachers. Your SIL should not have to spend $1100 of her money. When did we start thinking this is ok??
You're right, that's a fair chunk of change annually. But she's dedicated to teaching.

This is nothing new, nor is it unique to Oklahoma; my niece quit teaching in Riverside, California, she felt like she was paddling upstream. It's not a red state/blue state thing, either. It's a parental thing. My SIL was scheduled for parent-teacher conferences two weeks ago; any guesses how many parents came in? Or even signed up? She stayed until 7 PM to accommodate working parents on a Friday evening. When I was an elementary school student, there was a list of items that we were supposed to get, and every year we'd dutifully go and get them... a couple of spiral notebooks, a loose leaf binder with ruled paper, pencils and pens, an eraser, a ruler, a protractor and compass, etc. Maybe $25. This school year my SIL waited outside as one parent dropped of her child, to address the lack of support with that parent who sent her child in with nothing. "Didn't you get the list of items? It's on the Moore website, Facebook, etc..." The parental response, as she sipped on her Starbucks in her Lexus SUV: "This is the school's responsibility". When did it stop? Don't know, but it's been a while since classrooms were stocked with basic products. My SIL suggests that it's all of those PCs and laptops schools have purchased to enable learning, and she may be on to something. About five years ago she complained about getting a few electronic teaching aids, as they're called, when she really wanted was a modest raise.
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Old 04-03-2018, 05:18 PM
 
Location: Seattle Eastside
640 posts, read 366,692 times
Reputation: 1485
Quote:
Originally Posted by StillwaterTownie View Post
Numbers are low because of low COL? That doesn't sound right, since the cost of living is so high in Oklahoma some teachers have to get 2nd jobs and hope there's a job to find during the summer. Considering how many Oklahomans are struggling to live from paycheck to paycheck or have 2nd and 3rd jobs, that the low cost of living in Oklahoma is somehow a very good thing doesn't make much sense to me.
There is low pay of teachers relative to other professions. That comes from us not valuing teachers.

But then there is low pay of some teachers in some states relative to others.

COL in Oklahoma is very low compared to many parts of the US including neighboring Texas:

https://showmeinstitute.org/blog/acc...t-little-light

It's lower than in every surrounding state. That doesn't mean it is easy for teachers. But it does explain partly why teacher pay is lower. My point is that just because Seattle teachers start at $51k doesn't mean they are way better off. $51k gets you less far in Seattle than $40k gets you in Tulsa.
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Old 04-05-2018, 07:13 AM
 
1,789 posts, read 1,527,507 times
Reputation: 3682
If you adjust for COL then our teacher pay ranks kinda in the middle of the pack.

With that said, I think teachers are overdue for a raise, which was just now passed due to the walkout.

I think the education system of the whole state, country needs drastic overhaul. In particular OK has way way too many districts that creates a ton of overhead costs. Supposedly horse racing was going to save the day, then it was a tobacco tax, then it was casinos, then it was the lotto. Where did all that go, certainly not into education.

Many countries spend far less per student and turn far better prepared students. Furthermore OK only spends about 10% or so less than TX on a per student basis. Why is the end result so drastically different that our education system is in a crisis while TX is so much better. Its not entirely due to funding. There is a much more systematic problem in OK education.
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Old 04-05-2018, 12:02 PM
 
14,617 posts, read 397,370 times
Reputation: 22964
Friends are scrambling to cover day care and/or getting time off due to the strike.
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Old 04-08-2018, 01:49 PM
 
Location: Where the sun always shines
2,061 posts, read 2,708,209 times
Reputation: 3959
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neerwhal View Post
There is low pay of teachers relative to other professions. That comes from us not valuing teachers.

But then there is low pay of some teachers in some states relative to others.

COL in Oklahoma is very low compared to many parts of the US including neighboring Texas:

https://showmeinstitute.org/blog/acc...t-little-light

It's lower than in every surrounding state. That doesn't mean it is easy for teachers. But it does explain partly why teacher pay is lower. My point is that just because Seattle teachers start at $51k doesn't mean they are way better off. $51k gets you less far in Seattle than $40k gets you in Tulsa.
That's what I'm saying. So Oklahoma teachers expect to be paid like they live in NY or California? C'mon now, that place is CHEAP

Here's the thing about teaching, and I say that as someone who is one......there's no suprises when it comes to raises and benefits. You know exactly what you will be getting paid year after year (especially with the internet)
Why go through all the schooling, take the job and then whine about pay. So yeah, they can 1) look at a different profession, 2)leave town, 3) If they really feel they are entitled to certain things, make sure the significant other is pulling their weight financially.

ANd for those who don't know,...with the exception of maybe chemistry, and severe special education...most teaching credentials aren't that hard to get. Its mainly just a lot of busy work.
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