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Old 08-20-2020, 02:28 PM
Status: "By Thy return, sweet hour of prayer." (set 13 days ago)
 
Location: California
1,400 posts, read 893,214 times
Reputation: 2962

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Quote:
Originally Posted by eddie gein View Post
We don't have basements because

A) frostline is not low enough that a foundation requires it. A basement requires digging lower and elevating the cost of construction

B) In many places the water table is too high and this causes all kinds of problems.

C) Much of the state has clay soil which expands and contracts and will crack a basement wall every time and is way to expensive to fix.

The cost of safe rooms is pretty high but is pretty much standard in higher priced homes. They can dig you a modular cellar for pretty cheap this days if you want one of those.

Tornado risk is real but it's certainly not as big a risk as getting in your car and driving around.
My father owns and operates a construction company, so I understand why some homes have basements and others do not. However, I still think it is odd that most homes in Oklahoma do not feature basements, panic/safe rooms or storm cellars when the state is squarely situated in "Tornado Alley." In my perspective, that seems like a ripoff, regardless of how cheap your real estate prices are. One would think that at least one of those three features would be standard in most homes, similar to how air conditioning or "mud rooms" are standard features in homes, depending upon where in the country you are located.
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Old 08-20-2020, 03:10 PM
 
16,010 posts, read 1,313,415 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bert_from_back_East View Post
My father owns and operates a construction company, so I understand why some homes have basements and others do not. However, I still think it is odd that most homes in Oklahoma do not feature basements, panic/safe rooms or storm cellars when the state is squarely situated in "Tornado Alley." In my perspective, that seems like a ripoff, regardless of how cheap your real estate prices are. One would think that at least one of those three features would be standard in most homes, similar to how air conditioning or "mud rooms" are standard features in homes, depending upon where in the country you are located.

Again - what is your assumption about homes in OK based on?
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Old 08-20-2020, 03:29 PM
 
Location: Oklahoma
10,438 posts, read 7,716,946 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bert_from_back_East View Post
My father owns and operates a construction company, so I understand why some homes have basements and others do not. However, I still think it is odd that most homes in Oklahoma do not feature basements, panic/safe rooms or storm cellars when the state is squarely situated in "Tornado Alley." In my perspective, that seems like a ripoff, regardless of how cheap your real estate prices are. One would think that at least one of those three features would be standard in most homes, similar to how air conditioning or "mud rooms" are standard features in homes, depending upon where in the country you are located.
Many of your say 300K and up houses are now coming with safe rooms.

Nobody wants to pay for a basement that is going to get flooded or is going to cause foundation problems. Thus no builders are going to build them and get sued...... or have customers who end up with foundation/basement problems that cost 10-20 thousand or more to fix.

There is nothing odd about wanting to avoid THAT nightmare.

That being said, there are older homes in Oklahoma that have basements but the problems experienced by those homes are why we haven't seen basements in 60 or 70 years in most parts of Oklahoma.
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Old 08-20-2020, 07:35 PM
 
Location: Jenks, Ok
895 posts, read 1,482,901 times
Reputation: 913
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bert_from_back_East View Post
My father owns and operates a construction company, so I understand why some homes have basements and others do not. However, I still think it is odd that most homes in Oklahoma do not feature basements, panic/safe rooms or storm cellars when the state is squarely situated in "Tornado Alley." In my perspective, that seems like a ripoff, regardless of how cheap your real estate prices are. One would think that at least one of those three features would be standard in most homes, similar to how air conditioning or "mud rooms" are standard features in homes, depending upon where in the country you are located.
Because if your father over his lifetime built 1,000 homes in Oklahoma, the average number of those homes damaged in a tornado over 50 years is zero. In fact, over ten lifetimes and 10,000 homes, the average in 50 years would still be zero.
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Old 08-21-2020, 06:59 PM
 
Location: Northern Virginia
2,187 posts, read 776,904 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swake View Post
Because if your father over his lifetime built 1,000 homes in Oklahoma, the average number of those homes damaged in a tornado over 50 years is zero. In fact, over ten lifetimes and 10,000 homes, the average in 50 years would still be zero.

If they built a subdivision in Moore that number might be a few hundred give or take.
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Old 08-21-2020, 08:24 PM
 
Location: Jenks, Ok
895 posts, read 1,482,901 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Veritas Vincit View Post
If they built a subdivision in Moore that number might be a few hundred give or take.
The 2013 tornado there was an extreme event. One of, if not the most powerful tornado ever recorded.

As horrible at it was, damaging 1150 homes, that was only about 7% of the homes in Moore. Or about .2% of the homes in Metro OKC.
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Old 08-21-2020, 09:11 PM
 
Location: Northern Virginia
2,187 posts, read 776,904 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swake View Post
The 2013 tornado there was an extreme event. One of, if not the most powerful tornado ever recorded.

As horrible at it was, damaging 1150 homes, that was only about 7% of the homes in Moore. Or about .2% of the homes in Metro OKC.

Don't forget the 2010 one, the 2003 one and the 1999 one, and that's just the ones F/EF-4 or bigger. There have been over 20 tornadoes in Moore alone since they started recording them in the late 19th century.



In spite of that, mathematically your odds of dying in a tornado are tiny (close to nil if you know what you're doing), mathematically your odds of having your house flattened by a tornado still small.



But the chances of having power outages, roof damage or hail damage on your vehicles? Not insignificant at all I'd say. The odds of having a tornadic storm significantly interfere with your daily life in *some* way at some point? Almost a given if you stick around 5-10 years. Psychologically you gotta face up to having to have a 'plan' when it's time to 'seek shelter' immediately etc., making sure your kids are in shelter etc. It's not unique to OKC, of course, but it's not like people in say Philadelphia, Boston or Denver think about such things, so it is to be considered.



Back in the 1970s people who followed the world news started to get to know the streets of Belfast by name because they were mentioned so often on there in the context of riots, gun battles and bombings. Meanwhile storm chasers know every little hamlet in central OK, every state highway, and there's a reason for that.

Personally, I've been a severe weather junkie since I was in a tornadic storm and a derecho within about 2 weeks' time as a kid. I'm not afraid of storms. If I ever moved to OKC the temptation would be too great to just chase all the time, and I'd be one of those idiots stuck in a traffic jam near El Reno with a storm bearing down and my wife would probably file for divorce if I made it out.
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Old 08-22-2020, 06:51 AM
 
16,010 posts, read 1,313,415 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Veritas Vincit View Post
Don't forget the 2010 one, the 2003 one and the 1999 one, and that's just the ones F/EF-4 or bigger. There have been over 20 tornadoes in Moore alone since they started recording them in the late 19th century.



In spite of that, mathematically your odds of dying in a tornado are tiny (close to nil if you know what you're doing), mathematically your odds of having your house flattened by a tornado still small.



But the chances of having power outages, roof damage or hail damage on your vehicles? Not insignificant at all I'd say. The odds of having a tornadic storm significantly interfere with your daily life in *some* way at some point? Almost a given if you stick around 5-10 years. Psychologically you gotta face up to having to have a 'plan' when it's time to 'seek shelter' immediately etc., making sure your kids are in shelter etc. It's not unique to OKC, of course, but it's not like people in say Philadelphia, Boston or Denver think about such things, so it is to be considered.



Back in the 1970s people who followed the world news started to get to know the streets of Belfast by name because they were mentioned so often on there in the context of riots, gun battles and bombings. Meanwhile storm chasers know every little hamlet in central OK, every state highway, and there's a reason for that.

Personally, I've been a severe weather junkie since I was in a tornadic storm and a derecho within about 2 weeks' time as a kid. I'm not afraid of storms. If I ever moved to OKC the temptation would be too great to just chase all the time, and I'd be one of those idiots stuck in a traffic jam near El Reno with a storm bearing down and my wife would probably file for divorce if I made it out.

Honestly, I could care less what people in Philly, Boston or Denver think. You know that folks in OK dance around the BBQ holding hands and chanting "oh tornado" to psychologically face up to a plan?
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Old 08-22-2020, 03:55 PM
 
Location: Southwest
1,904 posts, read 1,294,838 times
Reputation: 1323
Those things scare me despite not being afraid of hurricanes.
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Old 08-22-2020, 04:24 PM
 
Location: plano
7,238 posts, read 8,948,158 times
Reputation: 6864
Ive lived in Hurricane prone areas and tornado alley. Tornado alley is a no issue place to me. hurricanes are a whole other thing. With the weather technology now and the war going on between news stations in DFW to have the best technology and weather man, we get great info on tornado's in time to go to a safe place if needed. Been here 10 years and nothing close to sending me there yet. I definitely do not need a basement.

Tornado's impact a very small area and can be monitored and locations of high potential shear and funnels can be predicted 5 to 10 minutes before they it an area. Hurricanes are so large to get out of one of the areas impacted by them takes days planning ahead. The forecast can call where the high winds are going to be but they seem to miss on predicting where the rain is going to be heavy especially when the storm stalls out over an area unexpected. Flooding can be deadly and brutal.

Oklahoma houses do not need basements. The added cost to all houses is not an appropriate measure to justify a basement in all homes.Its like saying we need to shut down the national economy for a virus outbreak that is hitting one small area of a country. Just makes no sense.
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