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Old 08-24-2020, 07:17 AM
 
Location: Northern Virginia
2,232 posts, read 789,631 times
Reputation: 5581

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnhw2 View Post
Tornadoes need heat to fire them up and fuel them. They generally do not occur during the night. We had 4 hit parts of DFW metro at an odd time in a year, around year end but they were over a few hours and died out by 8pm

You know little about these things to be recommending all OKC homes have a basement. Tornadoes are not a life changing or impacting event. Having a basement that leaks was more a life hassling event for me than a tornado has ever been.

I haven't mentioned basements anywhere in my posts, but I would have a storm shelter or reinforced safe room if I lived in OKC or any area that is tornado-prone. And your attitude is indicative of the phenomenon I mentioned earlier, tornadoes are no problem or hassle..until they are. Complacency about tornadoes has killed more than a few.



Also, tornadoes occur at all times of day. While the mid to late afternoon hours represent a peak time, there are plenty of examples of tornadoes hitting at night time or even in the morning. The Greensburg, KS EF-5 hit at around 10 pm, a killer EF-4 in Western AR in May 2011 touched down between midnight and 1 am, an EF-4 hit Lawrence County, AL between 3 and 4 am during the Super Tuesday Outbreak in 2008, and more locally a large F3 hit northeastern OKC in 2003 after 10:30 pm.



Daytime heating is a major factor in creating the conditions for convection and cyclogenesis, but not the only factor. Atmospheric dynamics can be so strong that storms can fire at any time of day, and of course, even if the storms first fired earlier in the day, they can keep recycling and keep going all through the evening. The storms that first fired around lunch time in Mississippi on April 27 2011 still produced tornadoes in NC and VA after 8 pm that night.
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Old 08-24-2020, 07:29 AM
 
Location: Northern Virginia
2,232 posts, read 789,631 times
Reputation: 5581
Quote:
Originally Posted by eddie gein View Post
So the fact that you have to alter your commute probably three or four times a year affect your life? Usually during a two month period (last half of April, May and the first part of June).

How is this any different than the blizzards and things that people get up north and in the northeast. How about the earthquakes and mudslides and wildfires (like right now in northern California). Do these things not affect their lives? Geez, the traffic alone in many of those places "alters your life" more than anything in OKC.

And hurricanes are far worse than tornadoes relative to affecting peoples lives relative to the fact that as you said, 95% of tornadoes don't do much damage to speak of (other than tear up some farmer's barn). Hurricanes are going to cause everybody problems with their flooding and winds simply because they are much larger storms.

But, yes, if you are scared of tornadoes you probably shouldn't come to Oklahoma. If you are scared of alligators you probably shouldn't move to Florida or Louisiana. If you are scared of snakes you probably shouldn't move to North Carolina.

There is always something to be scared of.

Where did I say it's different from other natural risk factors? It's exactly the same. But trying to sell folks on OK by saying "tornadoes? totally irrelevant" is about the same as saying "hurricanes? no problem at all around here" while selling a property on Grand Isle, LA.



If I was terrified of hurricanes, would I move to Florida or the Gulf coast in MS or the Outer Banks? Probably not. If even the idea of wildfires freaked me out, would I move to the rural inland West? Probably not.


OKC is actually on my list of places I'm considering for relocation. As mentioned I'm not afraid of storms, if you know what you're doing you're going to be fine. But you gotta have awareness of the risks. It often seems like in every sub-forum people just downplay every local hazard to the point where it's just plain dishonest. Gotta keep an eye on those property values eh..
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Old 08-24-2020, 08:53 AM
 
Location: Oklahoma
10,466 posts, read 7,733,305 times
Reputation: 9219
Quote:
Originally Posted by Veritas Vincit View Post
Where did I say it's different from other natural risk factors? It's exactly the same. But trying to sell folks on OK by saying "tornadoes? totally irrelevant" is about the same as saying "hurricanes? no problem at all around here" while selling a property on Grand Isle, LA.



If I was terrified of hurricanes, would I move to Florida or the Gulf coast in MS or the Outer Banks? Probably not. If even the idea of wildfires freaked me out, would I move to the rural inland West? Probably not.


OKC is actually on my list of places I'm considering for relocation. As mentioned I'm not afraid of storms, if you know what you're doing you're going to be fine. But you gotta have awareness of the risks. It often seems like in every sub-forum people just downplay every local hazard to the point where it's just plain dishonest. Gotta keep an eye on those property values eh..
The point is not that tornadoes are totally "irrelevant" it's just that the tornadoes get a higher rank on the pantheon of natural disasters than they probably deserve. But I will grant you that tornadoes are maybe more menacing because you never now where or when they might happen. So I suppose that is an issue.

However the difference between your Oklahoma tornado vs Grand Isle, LA is this. Grand Isle, LA WILL get hit by a hurricane or tropical storm fairly frequently. And pretty much everybody in town will suffer some property damage if it rolls over the top of town or comes close by.

Conversely, any given town in Oklahoma may get hit by a tornado given enough years but the odds of it doing anything more than taking out a few blocks or even just a few random houses as it bounces along aren't all that high.

Probably 8-9 years out of 10 the death toll for tornadoes in Oklahoma is in the single digits, and probably three to four years the death toll is zero.
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Old 08-24-2020, 10:41 AM
 
Location: plano
7,250 posts, read 8,957,669 times
Reputation: 6871
Quote:
Originally Posted by Veritas Vincit View Post
I haven't mentioned basements anywhere in my posts, but I would have a storm shelter or reinforced safe room if I lived in OKC or any area that is tornado-prone. And your attitude is indicative of the phenomenon I mentioned earlier, tornadoes are no problem or hassle..until they are. Complacency about tornadoes has killed more than a few.



Also, tornadoes occur at all times of day. While the mid to late afternoon hours represent a peak time, there are plenty of examples of tornadoes hitting at night time or even in the morning. The Greensburg, KS EF-5 hit at around 10 pm, a killer EF-4 in Western AR in May 2011 touched down between midnight and 1 am, an EF-4 hit Lawrence County, AL between 3 and 4 am during the Super Tuesday Outbreak in 2008, and more locally a large F3 hit northeastern OKC in 2003 after 10:30 pm.



Daytime heating is a major factor in creating the conditions for convection and cyclogenesis, but not the only factor. Atmospheric dynamics can be so strong that storms can fire at any time of day, and of course, even if the storms first fired earlier in the day, they can keep recycling and keep going all through the evening. The storms that first fired around lunch time in Mississippi on April 27 2011 still produced tornadoes in NC and VA after 8 pm that night.
Sorry got you confused with another poster pushing for basements.

I have a plan for when we need to monitor for a need to take action. It is based upon weather forecasting technology and ability to see real time radar around my location. Ive lived here 10 years and have gone into monitoring mode 4 times that i can recall but never got to a head for our most protected area in the house yet.

I too am fascinated by violent weather but would not classify it as impacting my daily life here nor does it make this area feel as at risk as a coastal area or on top of a broad seismic activity area.

I am on the NW side of DFW metro. Not all but many tornadoes travel to the NE so I look SW of homes so if I see high rise buildings and other significant structures SW of me I believe that area is safer than on the the southwestern edge of a city like Moore is where open land is SW of you.

When you are in tornado alley the risks are there and you need to have a plan on what to do if one is coming your way as well.

To characterize those of us living here as ignoring we may one day find ourselves needing a plan and not having one is a mis reading of these posts my friend.
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Old 08-24-2020, 11:25 AM
 
Location: Las Vegas, NV
1,961 posts, read 1,632,977 times
Reputation: 2629
Quote:
Originally Posted by swake View Post
You are worried about the wrong things. Heat in the southwest is worse than Tornados in Oklahoma. By Far. Tucson and Tulsa are similar sized cities. In 2016 alone Tucson had 61 heat related deaths. Or more than twice as many tornado deaths as Tulsa has had in 70 years.
That is why I have air conditioning. We have had record heat for this time of year, running about 10-12 degrees above normal. Yesterday it was 110. It was 75 inside the house. I never found a device that kept my home from being destroyed.

We actually had a tornado in Nevada last summer. It was an F0 that lasted for about 30 seconds and blew around some desert sand in an uninhabited area. There was a video on YouTube of it.
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Old 08-24-2020, 12:24 PM
 
16,048 posts, read 1,345,222 times
Reputation: 25986
Quote:
Originally Posted by orca17 View Post
That is why I have air conditioning. We have had record heat for this time of year, running about 10-12 degrees above normal. Yesterday it was 110. It was 75 inside the house. I never found a device that kept my home from being destroyed.

We actually had a tornado in Nevada last summer. It was an F0 that lasted for about 30 seconds and blew around some desert sand in an uninhabited area. There was a video on YouTube of it.

What are you trying to say?
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Old 08-24-2020, 04:47 PM
 
Location: Tulare County, Ca
1,452 posts, read 920,635 times
Reputation: 2861
Quote:
Originally Posted by Threestep2 View Post
OK has its own fires. Show me how you make it to an outside shelter with several cat carriers and that in bad weather.
Good question. How would you get all those cats to safety? How much notice/warning/time do you get before you wind up in OZ? Beautiful cats by the way. Is the big guy a Maine Coon?
One reason the fires here are so bad is that we don't get any rain from the end of April until late November. It's super dry around here. One of the fires up north has burned an area bigger than Grand Canyon.
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Old 08-24-2020, 06:22 PM
 
16,048 posts, read 1,345,222 times
Reputation: 25986
Quote:
Originally Posted by janellen View Post
Good question. How would you get all those cats to safety? How much notice/warning/time do you get before you wind up in OZ? Beautiful cats by the way. Is the big guy a Maine Coon?
One reason the fires here are so bad is that we don't get any rain from the end of April until late November. It's super dry around here. One of the fires up north has burned an area bigger than Grand Canyon.
Thank you! Izzy&Bizzi is an OK road warrior princess; part Main Coon part Ragdoll part who knows what. She showed up in a blizzard, was eating cracked corn out of the bird feeder, vet said she would not make it. Her and ChaCha (Bengal/tabby throw away) know their carriers which are large enough for them to move around in. Tornado shelter is in a spare garage bay, gets cleaned out every other week and there are no obstacles in the way. Used in five years - never.
In Texas we had one of the first certified F5 above ground monsters. It took going all the way to the State Engineer to get a building permit. It took up a garage bay for five years.
When we got hit in AL/GA we had none. Riding motorcycles in a hurrican is fun - after you arrive and can tell tall tales
OK - SO mentioned a potential job, then he mentioned a potential job he might be very interested in. It took two weeks to get two realtors to shift into second gear with very specific requirements. Half a day, 12 houses later we signed on the spot for one that was not on the list but across the street from one. Three weeks later we moved in. Furries had dog kennels as big as could get into the back of my Cherokee and they taught me about the art of caterwauling and teamwork to keep the sound coming for 3 1/2 hours - until they had undivided male attention when we arrived. We lost ShadowCat by now. All was well.
We drove through a wildfire in Oregon ages ago. No repeat! Last year we got the smell and smoke of a big one here in OK. No fun.
It sounds like a lot of folks who talk about tornadoes and Hurricans here have never "been there".
Rain is hit or miss here. It is either or - flood or drought.
Every US state or better every geographic area has its pros and cons. You can use common sense or go crazy.
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Old 08-27-2020, 06:42 PM
 
Location: Jenks, Ok
895 posts, read 1,484,048 times
Reputation: 913
Tell me again about how tornados are worse than hurricanes?
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Old 09-10-2020, 08:53 PM
 
2,069 posts, read 633,322 times
Reputation: 6265
Quote:
Originally Posted by curiousgeorge5 View Post
Those things scare me despite not being afraid of hurricanes.
Personally, I would much rather live in an area that is prone to tornados, vs. living in an area prone to hurricanes. At least with a tornado, you can walk a half-mile and be out of the path of destruction, whereas with a severe hurricane, it may be several days before help gets to you, and power can be out for many weeks. Hurricanes are so deadly because if you go underground to escape the wind, you put yourself at risk of drowning, and if you go up to escape the flooding and the wind gets in, bye, bye.

Interesting anecdote about tornados: In 1990, I volunteered for the tornado aftermath cleanup in Plainfield, IL. Most of the homes in the neighborhood I worked in were built on slabs, a woman and her kids survived by kneeling next to her bathtub, it was the only room in the house that had more than one wall left. The basketball rig they had (four inch pipe) was bent right down to the ground. A 2' diameter tree next to the driveway was stripped bare but mostly still standing. Interestingly, you could tell where the garage, driveway, sidewalks etc. were as they were still there, the walkway up to the house still had Marigolds growing next to it, and they were in perfect condition, amidst all that other devastation. Shows the effect of being near the ground, where the winds are much lower velocity due to the drag of the earth. Getting into a depression or ditch could make the difference between living, and not living, in a tornado.

If I ever move to Oklahoma, I'll definitely build a shelter, that will double as a vault for valuables. Didn't know about the chiggers, though, will have to research those. Not a big fan of bugs. Are they bad around Norman?
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