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Knowing nothing about Oklahoma, but doing a lot of reading at present, I'd be interested if anyone has experience in both SE Oklahoma and East Tennessee and could offer a comparison.
I'm most interested in how the weather compares. As a soon to be retiree, also interested in an economic comparison as well a geography, racial make up and any other pertinent demographics that come to mind.
Knowing nothing about Oklahoma, but doing a lot of reading at present, I'd be interested if anyone has experience in both SE Oklahoma and East Tennessee and could offer a comparison.
I'm most interested in how the weather compares. As a soon to be retiree, also interested in an economic comparison as well a geography, racial make up and any other pertinent demographics that come to mind.
Have friends in both areas. I can say SE Oklahoma south of I-40 is much more rural. The "big city" McAlester has less than 20,000 people. The rest of SE OK is smaller places, but you could live close to Ft. Smith AR (pop 70,000 or so) and still sort of be in SE OK. I'm not aware of SE OK being especially a draw for retirees. On the other hand, far eastern Tenn, meaning the "Tri Cities" area, I hear attracts a fair number of retirees and is growing because of that. The "Tri Cities" of Bristol, Kingsport, and Johnson City form a triangle about 15 miles apart and have populations of around 30,000, 50,000, and 70,000 more or less. With all the woods and hills still feels very rural once you get a little ways out of town. Johnson City has East Tennessee State U, but no big colleges in SE OK. The TCs area has more advanced medical care, and other services geared for for seniors, than SE OK. You can probably find a thread about retiring in Johnson City for more comments.
SE OK is several degrees warmer than East Tennessee. The summers are definitely hotter and muggier in SE OK but the winters are noticeably milder than in ET although SE OK is still pretty chilly for a few months.
I think it is important to note that the "mountains" in SE Oklahoma are way smaller than those in East Tennessee. I'm just glad we have them at all. They are really pretty and provide a stark contrast to other areas of Oklahoma.
The area around Broken Bow lake (which is at the south end of the mountainous region) is the area that is attracting retirees. Some seriously large retirement and second homes being built by mostly DFW residents in that area (Hochatown).
Since the OP was asking about economics, I'm no economist but one way to tell something about how well an area is doing economically is population change. Almost every county in SE OK lost population or stagnated in the past few decades. Durant is doing well, if you want to include that as SE OK, and the small pocket of Hochatown is doing well as Eddie points out. Otherwise it's been downhill, which is the generally the story for most of rural OK not next to OKC or Tulsa. Economically there's just not much happening in SE OK.
East Tennessee has seen robust population growth. Johnson City has had double-digit growth for a few decades now from people moving there. Knoxville has had single-digit growth.
By the way, if you buy a house in East Tennessee, find out whether it's been tested for radon gas. Some houses around there have a serious radon problem.
Since the OP is about to start retirement, here is one more thought about the social scene. If you move to SE OK, in most places almost all of the folks your age would be life-long locals and you would be the "outsider", not that I'm saying they would be unfriendly. If you move to the Tri-Cities, a lot of the seniors would be people who chose to move there to retire.
About 1/6 of the people in Johnson City itself are over 65.
And to emphasize my earlier remark, in the TCs there are major medical facilities that can handle serious and complex problems. But the people whom I know in SE OK have to drive a good several hours to Oklahoma City or Tulsa to get surgery or sophisticated treatment. (Or for really good doctors, I personally think.)
Since the OP was asking about economics, I'm no economist but one way to tell something about how well an area is doing economically is population change. Almost every county in SE OK lost population or stagnated in the past few decades. Durant is doing well, if you want to include that as SE OK, and the small pocket of Hochatown is doing well as Eddie points out. Otherwise it's been downhill, which is the generally the story for most of rural OK not next to OKC or Tulsa. Economically there's just not much happening in SE OK.
East Tennessee has seen robust population growth. Johnson City has had double-digit growth for a few decades now from people moving there. Knoxville has had single-digit growth.
By the way, if you buy a house in East Tennessee, find out whether it's been tested for radon gas. Some houses around there have a serious radon problem.
Since the OP is about to start retirement, here is one more thought about the social scene. If you move to SE OK, in most places almost all of the folks your age would be life-long locals and you would be the "outsider", not that I'm saying they would be unfriendly. If you move to the Tri-Cities, a lot of the seniors would be people who chose to move there to retire.
About 1/6 of the people in Johnson City itself are over 65.
And to emphasize my earlier remark, in the TCs there are major medical facilities that can handle serious and complex problems. But the people whom I know in SE OK have to drive a good several hours to Oklahoma City or Tulsa to get surgery or sophisticated treatment. (Or for really good doctors, I personally think.)
This isn’t accurate regarding population growth in east TN. Numerous demographic reports can be found here.
In Tennessee, middle TN (largely metro Nashville) is driving the growth, with some smaller crumbs going to east TN.
I used to work for the hospital system in the Tri-Cities. It is a medical monopoly that has difficult treating complicated cases. I could name a dozen cases of people I know personally who were referred to major university medical centers - given the Tri-Cities location, those facilities are hours away.
SE OK probably suffers from many of these same issues. I’m a Tri-Cities native, and the whole area punches well below its weight because of how the city governments compete instead of cooperating.
SE OK probably suffers from many of these same issues. I’m a Tri-Cities native, and the whole area punches well below its weight because of how the city governments compete instead of cooperating.
SE OK simply doesn't compare to East Tennessee on any real level on a community/metro level. But if you want real pretty, cheap land and don't mind driving a ways for a lot of amenities it might be ok. If there was a suitable town in the mountainous, piney part of SE Oklahoma I'd probably be there now. But there isn't.
Most of the larger towns are on the periphery of that area and they are all 10-15 K.
In Tennessee, middle TN (largely metro Nashville) is driving the growth, with some smaller crumbs going to east TN.
I used to work for the hospital system in the Tri-Cities. It is a medical monopoly that has difficult treating complicated cases. I could name a dozen cases of people I know personally who were referred to major university medical centers - given the Tri-Cities location, those facilities are hours away.
SE OK probably suffers from many of these same issues. I’m a Tri-Cities native, and the whole area punches well below its weight because of how the city governments compete instead of cooperating.
The US Census shows double-digit growth in Johnson City and Kingsport from 2010 to 2020. I've attached a screen grab from the government site, including SE OK's "metropolis" of McAlester for comparison. In 1990, JC's pop was about 45,000, see link below. In 2020 it's about 71,000, see attached.
If you worked in the medical profession, when you use the term "complicated case" you might mean something different than I have in mind. I'm thinking of common senior-age problems such as cancer treatment or surgery such as joint replacement or heart surgery. The McAlester hospital offers some surgeries, and treatments for a lot of common issues. I'm not saying it's not a good hospital, but the people I know have decided it was worthwhile, after researching, to make the long trek to Oklahoma City for major surgeries. Sometimes they had to, sometimes they preferred to. But it's a good 120 miles to OKC just from McAlester, and farther than that from most of SE OK.
My friends in the Tri-Cities think, or maybe just hear, that the quality of advanced medical care is ok, but I admit they haven't yet had to put the TC medical complex to the test for anything like a major surgery or "complicated case". They're not senior enough!
The US Census shows double-digit growth in Johnson City and Kingsport from 2010 to 2020. I've attached a screen grab from the government site, including SE OK's "metropolis" of McAlester for comparison. In 1990, JC's pop was about 45,000, see link below. In 2020 it's about 71,000, see attached.
If you worked in the medical profession, when you use the term "complicated case" you might mean something different than I have in mind. I'm thinking of common senior-age problems such as cancer treatment or surgery such as joint replacement or heart surgery. The McAlester hospital offers some surgeries, and treatments for a lot of common issues. I'm not saying it's not a good hospital, but the people I know have decided it was worthwhile, after researching, to make the long trek to Oklahoma City for major surgeries. Sometimes they had to, sometimes they preferred to. But it's a good 120 miles to OKC just from McAlester, and farther than that from most of SE OK.
My friends in the Tri-Cities think, or maybe just hear, that the quality of advanced medical care is ok, but I admit they haven't yet had to put the TC medical complex to the test for anything like a major surgery or "complicated case". They're not senior enough!
If you're looking at "double digit percentage growth" from the 2010 to 2020 census, that's about 6,000 people total - or ~600 people per year. That's probably accurate. Also, Washington County, TN, where Johnson City is located, is the only county north or east of Knoxville with net population growth, if you exclude incoming moves of retiree age people.
Kingsport is essentially a mill town. I grew up in Kingsport. It has far, far more in common with Rust Belt cities in Ohio, Pennsylvania, and Indiana, than it does with most of the rest of Tennessee. At one time, maybe pre-1990, Kingsport was the leader of the Tri-Cities. Kingsport and Johnson City diverged around 2000 - Kingsport doubled down on heavy industry, while Johnson City (never a heavy industry center) diversified into more white collar jobs surrounding the VA, Mountain States Health Alliance, and ETSU. Johnson City "got the lead" around 2005 and has been extending it since then. Even much smaller Bristol, TN, which has about half of Kingsport's population, has cannibalized tons of retail and restaurants that used to be in Kingsport. Kingsport has very few new businesses. Kingsport is an unattractive place for many reasons.
Keep in mind that Johnson City is the only pocket of "suburban nice" in the region. Prices are much higher than surrounding areas because it's the nicest place to live within a two hour radius, if you exclude Asheville, NC, which is largely going to attract different types of people.
I'm 35 with no major medical issues. My last girlfriend passed away on 1/7/22 at age 27, had lived here for over a decade, and had lupus/RA, and other autoimmune issues and underlying medical problems. She was always bounced to Vanderbilt in Nashville for anything more than a sniffle. At 24, she had a double hip replacement due to complications from the steroids used to treat lupus, and no doctor in the regional health system (Ballad Health) would operate on that sophisticated of a patient, but she was the tenth hip replacement of the day for a Vanderbilt level surgeon, and it all went fine. There is just a monumental difference in expertise between small town hospitals in TN or OK and a major medical center in somewhere like Nashville if you have a serious health problem.
The bottom line is that I think very basic care here is fine. I would be looking to UT Medical Center, Vanderbilt (Nashville), Duke (Raleigh), UVA-Charlottesville, or maybe even Emory (Atlanta) or other Atlanta based hospitals for serious care. I don't trust the local expertise for anything more than basics.
I've never been to Oklahoma. My guess is that rural Oklahoma is probably even in a bigger boondoggle than we are in, with more hospitals shuttering, thinner provider coverage, longer distances to even somewhat competent medical care, etc., but it's certainly not all roses here.
Good post, and sorry to hear about your and your girl friend's hard experiences. I've got a friend with lupus, but she's not in such a bad condition for now at least.
To help the OP, I'd like to ask: for a typical senior without so many complications, do you think the TC medical complex could offer good enough care for, say, cancer, hip replacement, heart bypass surgery? Or if an elderly patient had diabetes but no other complications, would they get shunted out for those surgeries?
On behalf of the OP, thanks for the good info about the three cities. My friends live in JC, which is the only one of the three I've visited. I'm ignorant about the other two cities. My 2 cents is that JC seems like a decent place to live in a lot of ways.
My point for the OP was that double-digit growth, even if the numbers themselves per year aren't huge or impressive, is a reasonable indication of an overall good economic situation in a town. Even retirees represent new spending. I don't know about rural small towns in Tennessee, but a lot of small towns all over OK, including southeast OK, have simply been dying, losing a few or several percent for decade after decade. I overgeneralized, however, thinking only about the TCs and Knoxville but not the county populations.
Rural Oklahoma's medical care situation is about as you say. You can get fine basic care in a lot of small cities, but specialists and the fanciest equipment may require a long drive. Another complication, I think, without wanting to make specific accusations, is that small-city hospitals sometimes kind of oversell their services to try to make money or stay alive economically by keeping local patients. That is, they'll offer certain procedures in which the physician is not as experienced, or doesn't perform it as often, as a patient might like. As you kind of suggest, it certainly is better to have a surgeon who does it every day for years.
So, my wife and I are looking to move to either of the places mentioned here (most likely closer to Knoxville than the TC area). My question is that my wife suffers from SAD (seasonal affected disorder) meaning on she suffers when there are many cloudy days in a row. She used to live in Chicago where it is cloudy from November thru May. How does the cloudy winter weather differ in SE Ok, versus ET?
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