[OK_Bound11]

Very interesting the native American take on all this. Up North I would assume that the Confederate Flag would not be quite as accepted to Indians… but that's true of the population in general.

I agree about Andrew Jackson, but for different reasons. He expanded the executive office to heights that were unimaginable at the time. I think that he made a few good decisions, many not so good. The US obviously was destined for westward expansion, it's hard to imagine that war with Indians was the only option… but I'm no historian, though I enjoy history.

His dealings with the Nullifiers suggest that he would be very strongly opposed to the Confederate vision of freedom… Andrew Jackson was not a great President by my standards, but many historians consider him to be one of the best.

I'm Jefferson man myself (both the one of the first name, and the one of the last name)

[_redbird_]

Originally Posted by OK_Bound11

Very interesting the native American take on all this. Up North I would assume that the Confederate Flag would not be quite as accepted to Indians… but that's true of the population in general.

Why? I would think they would be indifferent because the war between the States was outside their conflict. If anything, seeing your enemy (anglos) fighting amongst themselves would mean less soldiers here fighting us.

[1751texan]

Originally Posted by Lawman_Kyle

I have one in my yard as do my parents. Several of my parents neighbors in Hughes county fly them too. It is a symbol of our heritage and is pretty well accepted. It's a symbol of pride, not hate.

My history is a little rusty; was Oklahoma part of the Southren secession?

Oh, BTW...which National flag Of the Conferderate States of America...do you fly

The first National Flag\

or the Last National Flag?

[Guthrie Kid]

As you have said in the past redbird, it is a complicated matter for sure.

Allow me to present this, one of many sites that talk about Indian Territory circa 1861-1865.

The Civil War in Indian Territory/Oklahoma in Brief

[Annemieke Roell]

Originally Posted by _redbird_

This topic has been discussed ad nauseum on other threads. But since you bring it up, you state, "it embodies the spirit of 1776, freedom from an oppressive government". Surely you realize from the Indigenous Peoples standpoint, the US Government beginning in 1776 went way beyond oppression towards Native Americans, right? And Andrew Jackass Jackson embodies that oppressive spirit to some Native American tribes from the southeast. I'm just saying....

And you realize Andrew Jackson was the only President to ignore the US Supreme Court? Oh, wait a minute, life, liberty and equality was for Americans, and Native Americans were not accorded that status until 1924. I am not trying to start a war either, I just want you to realize we all have our own unique perspectives, as do those in the border states who are fleeing oppression, albeit illegally, into this country.

I am not saying the confederate flag symbolizes that oppresssion, I am pointing out the obvious from another perspective. If you flee oppression to begin your own oppression, then it appears to be an embodiment with two perspectives.

I could care less if someone flies the confederate flag, like Lawman_Kyle states, it is not uncommon in our area. Just don't try and sell the embodiment of freedom tale to me.

The system ouldn't let me rep you again, D .... but all I ant to say is: Amen, brother!!!

[EarthBound?]

Originally Posted by _redbird_

This topic has been discussed ad nauseum on other threads. But since you bring it up, you state, "it embodies the spirit of 1776, freedom from an oppressive government". Surely you realize from the Indigenous Peoples standpoint, the US Government beginning in 1776 went way beyond oppression towards Native Americans, right? And Andrew Jackass Jackson embodies that oppressive spirit to some Native American tribes from the southeast. I'm just saying....

And you realize Andrew Jackson was the only President to ignore the US Supreme Court? Oh, wait a minute, life, liberty and equality was for Americans, and Native Americans were not accorded that status until 1924. I am not trying to start a war either, I just want you to realize we all have our own unique perspectives, as do those in the border states who are fleeing oppression, albeit illegally, into this country.

I am not saying the confederate flag symbolizes that oppression, I am pointing out the obvious from another perspective. If you flee oppression to begin your own oppression, then it appears to be an embodiment with two perspectives.

I could care less if someone flies the confederate flag, like Lawman_Kyle states, it is not uncommon in our area. Just don't try and sell the embodiment of freedom tale to me.

Bravo! Bravo! This thing won't let me Rep Point you, Please someone give RB a ton of points.

[colleeng47]

Originally Posted by 1751texan

My history is a little rusty; was Oklahoma part of the Southren secession?

Oh, BTW...which National flag Of the Conferderate States of America...do you fly

The first National Flag\

or the Last National Flag?

Oklahoma didn't become a state until 1907. Most residents of Indian Territory sympathized with the south, however. We also were one of the states to offer a confederate pension to old soldiers and their widows.

[OK_Bound11]

Originally Posted by 1751texan

My history is a little rusty; was Oklahoma part of the Southren secession?

Oh, BTW...which National flag Of the Conferderate States of America...do you fly

The first National Flag\

or the Last National Flag?

I like the Battle Flag (Star and Bars)… Although the national flag is nice. I wish more states incorporated it into their flags. The only states now that have fairly obvious inclusions of CSA flags are Arkansas, and Mississippi… However FL, GA and AL still have some small signs of it.

Why? I would think they would be indifferent because the war between the States was outside their conflict. If anything, seeing your enemy (anglos) fighting amongst themselves would mean less soldiers here fighting us.

I can tell you that in NY the Indians are about as Liberal as they come (I used to actually live on the border of Mohawk (Akwesasne) territory). I never asked. I would assume that most Indians aren't immune for regional partisan differences… And you have to understand, up here it's not just uncouth to fly that flag, it's considered hateful! I have mine in my garage, hung on my wall next to a US flag, and people comment! That's why I make that assumption.

But I suppose that if you were being run out of every settlement you built the distraction that the CSA posed would be welcomed, and probably seem overdue.

Does anyone know anything about how many Natives wore Blue vs how many wore Gray?

[Guthrie Kid]

Here is a start, wikipedia and remember it can be hijacked and changed by anyone at any time.

Regardless, have a look and you will find links to all sorts of opinions

Native Americans in the American Civil War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[OK_Bound11]

So most Indians did fight for the Yankees… Kind of seems odd that they would do that now when the country they were fighting for was fighting them right before that war.

Almost seems like sending Jews to fight the Allies on behalf of the Nazis...