Isn't it about time for OC to build some light rail lines??? (Los Angeles: live in, versus)

[Chatteress]

Isn't it about time for OC to build some light rail lines??? I mean, really! It takes forever to get from one end of the county to the other and having one or more light rails would greatly enhance OCTA services. Metrolink only runs limited service during peak rush hours so they are little help. LA and San Diego county both have invested in light rail so what's the hold up with OC?

[wrcousert]

Orange County came close to building a light rail at least twice in the last 20 years, but backed out at the last minute.

Measure M had funds set aside specifically for building the Center Line. They used the money for other purposes. I'm surprised they didn't get sued over that.

More recently, the Bravo! BRT was supposed to create a bus system that provided service almost as good as a light rail system - four bus lines with bus stops that collected fares off the bus (improved boarding times) and buses that had the ability to control traffic signals. It would have made a huge difference. OCTA cancelled that project too...

OCTA also said they were going to improve Metrolink drastically. It would run 18 hours a day, every 20 minutes, providing a service very similar to a light rail system. It never happened.

What's the hold up? Most people in Orange County love their cars too much to switch to transit. Change the mindset of the average person and maybe we'll see some change. Until then, think about getting a scooter.

[bhcompy]

Orange County doesn't have a major city with a huge footprint that can influence the entire county like Los Angeles. The LA Metro rail system isn't that extensive outside of LA city limits. It does have size, but most of the outward growth has come after the fact. Anaheim or Santa Ana would need to build their own systems to get anyone else involved.

And I don't think it's that people in OC love their cars too much to switch. I think it's that the options are terrible. Build a rail line down the 405(which has the busiest section of freeway in the US in OC) and you'll see a line with high ridership. Provide express buses from the termination point to the blue line or green line stations at the north end and end it at the metrolink station in irvine and you provide more value. There's a reason the Green Line and Blue Lines have heavy ridership. They provide relief to heavy commutes from people that live in normal suburbs(just like in OC) to major centers(El Segundo and DTLA). It's the same thing the Denver light rail has been a success, despite the assumption that strongly conservative people of the southern Denver suburbs would ignore the rail system because of their values. Build an affordable and effective mode of transport that people can actually commute with and it will be utilized.

[EscapeCalifornia]

Originally Posted by bhcompy

It's the same thing the Denver light rail has been a success, despite the assumption that strongly conservative people of the southern Denver suburbs would ignore the rail system because of their values. Build an affordable and effective mode of transport that people can actually commute with and it will be utilized.

It works in Denver because the line runs from downtown (with lots of jobs, Coors Field, Pepsi Center, Invesco Field), through DTC, and to the suburbs where there's parking lots at the stations. OC lacks such an axis of heavy job/attraction concentration. You'd need a hundred rail lines going a hundred different directions here to make much difference. Then there's always the "last mile" problem of getting to your REAL destination.

[jackie100]

Personally I would never take public transportation; I hate being around people and I like my car way too much. Don't worry I can afford the gas

[Fontucky]

Nobody was worried.

[ragnarkar]

Originally Posted by bhcompy

Orange County doesn't have a major city with a huge footprint that can influence the entire county like Los Angeles. The LA Metro rail system isn't that extensive outside of LA city limits. It does have size, but most of the outward growth has come after the fact. Anaheim or Santa Ana would need to build their own systems to get anyone else involved.

And I don't think it's that people in OC love their cars too much to switch. I think it's that the options are terrible. Build a rail line down the 405(which has the busiest section of freeway in the US in OC) and you'll see a line with high ridership. Provide express buses from the termination point to the blue line or green line stations at the north end and end it at the metrolink station in irvine and you provide more value. There's a reason the Green Line and Blue Lines have heavy ridership. They provide relief to heavy commutes from people that live in normal suburbs(just like in OC) to major centers(El Segundo and DTLA). It's the same thing the Denver light rail has been a success, despite the assumption that strongly conservative people of the southern Denver suburbs would ignore the rail system because of their values. Build an affordable and effective mode of transport that people can actually commute with and it will be utilized.

I'd love to have a line along I-405.. probably from the Blue Line terminus in Long Beach to either the Irvine or Lake Forest Metrolink. This will serve Seal Beach, Huntington Beach, Fountain Valley, Costa Mesa, Newport Beach, and Irvine. Even if I don't wish to use it, I'd still vote for such a measure (which will make it possible to drive on 405 during rush hour.)

An alternative would be a line along or paralleling CA-22 starting from the blue line end to the Irvine Metrolink serving Cypress, Garden Grove, Anaheim, Orange, Santa Ana, Tustin, and Irvine.

[bhcompy]

Originally Posted by EscapeCalifornia

It works in Denver because the line runs from downtown (with lots of jobs, Coors Field, Pepsi Center, Invesco Field), through DTC, and to the suburbs where there's parking lots at the stations. OC lacks such an axis of heavy job/attraction concentration. You'd need a hundred rail lines going a hundred different directions here to make much difference. Then there's always the "last mile" problem of getting to your REAL destination.

I think that a simple rail line from long beach to the spectrum along the 405 will do well. job center to job center and plenty of people making the commute in between. keep in mind that both long beach and irvine have extensive local bus systems, particularly with irvine that has a ~15 minute end to end shuttle from metrolink to all points around the city(where as long beach has a standard bus service). It works in the same way that Long Beach to DTLA works and Norwalk to El Segundo works

[Chatteress]

Originally Posted by wrcousert

Orange County came close to building a light rail at least twice in the last 20 years, but backed out at the last minute.

Measure M had funds set aside specifically for building the Center Line. They used the money for other purposes. I'm surprised they didn't get sued over that.

More recently, the Bravo! BRT was supposed to create a bus system that provided service almost as good as a light rail system - four bus lines with bus stops that collected fares off the bus (improved boarding times) and buses that had the ability to control traffic signals. It would have made a huge difference. OCTA cancelled that project too...

OCTA also said they were going to improve Metrolink drastically. It would run 18 hours a day, every 20 minutes, providing a service very similar to a light rail system. It never happened.

What's the hold up? Most people in Orange County love their cars too much to switch to transit. Change the mindset of the average person and maybe we'll see some change. Until then, think about getting a scooter.

If the mass transit were greatly improved ... More folks would opt to use it ... I know several Metrolink passengers who have their own vehicles but loathe commuting in the insane LA/OC traffic and would much rather sit back and read a book versus dealing with crazy drivers and other hazards of the road.

[Chatteress]

Originally Posted by bhcompy

Orange County doesn't have a major city with a huge footprint that can influence the entire county like Los Angeles. The LA Metro rail system isn't that extensive outside of LA city limits. It does have size, but most of the outward growth has come after the fact. Anaheim or Santa Ana would need to build their own systems to get anyone else involved.

And I don't think it's that people in OC love their cars too much to switch. I think it's that the options are terrible. Build a rail line down the 405(which has the busiest section of freeway in the US in OC) and you'll see a line with high ridership. Provide express buses from the termination point to the blue line or green line stations at the north end and end it at the metrolink station in irvine and you provide more value. There's a reason the Green Line and Blue Lines have heavy ridership. They provide relief to heavy commutes from people that live in normal suburbs(just like in OC) to major centers(El Segundo and DTLA). It's the same thing the Denver light rail has been a success, despite the assumption that strongly conservative people of the southern Denver suburbs would ignore the rail system because of their values. Build an affordable and effective mode of transport that people can actually commute with and it will be utilized.

Exactly!