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I have grown up in OC in a Middle Class family that is lucky enough to live in one of the nice areas not far from the coast. My family has always struggled but not enough to ever make a move. Now that I am young working professional I am flabbergasted as to how the middle class survives here.
First off, this is not for those who live with a low quality of living(ie packed housing and shared cars, etc). Im talking people that just want a decent safe affordable place to live in a neighborhood where people speak english. I have a pretty good job that pays me almost what the market should pay for my experience and have 1 roommate. I have lived all over OC. With that being said these are my observations and was hoping to get some responses.
1) Wages to cost of living. Real Estate and rents are not even close with wages. How do people afford this? How do young people buy(and afford) real estate? If you rent, its impossible to save enough to get ahead.
2) Cost of living/taxes. This kind of goes hand in hand with the first but everything is soooo expensive. Then throw in those CA taxes and it only makes it worse.
3) Overcrowding - congestion and traffic is ridiculous. Most middle class have to commute, how do people put up with a 45 minute 20 mile drive twice a day???
4) I am in no way a racist and I enjoy diversity, however, if you happen to be caucasian and want to live somewhere where you feel comfortable, where do you live if you are middle class? I guess RSM and deep South County are really the only places left.
In places like Aliso Viejo, Mission Viejo, Lake Forest, etc, home owners mostly survive by having dual income W2 earners. In Aliso Viejo, someone posted a statistic where nearly 80% of the working population are W2 earners who go on to their busy bee lives, commuting 1-2 hours a day, and then coming home to a huge tract home neighborhood. These middle-class enclaves usually have two W2 wage earners, and if they saved frugally, had a good downpayment, they can live comfortably with a mortgage, and a car payment or two. No it's not luxurious, but it's comfortable.
As for #4, yeah that's about it. North OC has become more of an extension of LA County in terms of demographics. South OC is the last caucasian enclave in OC, and even that's changing slowly, but surely.
I have grown up in OC in a Middle Class family that is lucky enough to live in one of the nice areas not far from the coast. My family has always struggled but not enough to ever make a move. Now that I am young working professional I am flabbergasted as to how the middle class survives here.
First off, this is not for those who live with a low quality of living(ie packed housing and shared cars, etc). Im talking people that just want a decent safe affordable place to live in a neighborhood where people speak english. I have a pretty good job that pays me almost what the market should pay for my experience and have 1 roommate. I have lived all over OC. With that being said these are my observations and was hoping to get some responses.
1) Wages to cost of living. Real Estate and rents are not even close with wages. How do people afford this? How do young people buy(and afford) real estate? If you rent, its impossible to save enough to get ahead.
2) Cost of living/taxes. This kind of goes hand in hand with the first but everything is soooo expensive. Then throw in those CA taxes and it only makes it worse.
3) Overcrowding - congestion and traffic is ridiculous. Most middle class have to commute, how do people put up with a 45 minute 20 mile drive twice a day???
4) I am in no way a racist and I enjoy diversity, however, if you happen to be caucasian and want to live somewhere where you feel comfortable, where do you live if you are middle class? I guess RSM and deep South County are really the only places left.
How do they survive? They move out of state. Have you not seen the increasing numbers of people leaving this rotten, God forsaken state? Its been much higher than the number of those moving in for years now. You know, states with great economies. States with jobs. States that welcome small businesses. States where you can get a 4 bedroom house for what it costs to live in a shack here. In another few years, all that will be left here are millions of illegals and free loaders collecting money Obama is handing them for doing nothing and this state will completely collapse. Its already headed that way and fast.
If peope r leaving why is population andcongestion worsening? If people are in dual income houses how do they take care of their kids?
The kids aren't well taken care of. If there's no extended family, they're raised in day care. Either that, or people don't have kids. As another poster said, this is why many Caucasians simply leave. They don't think the cost of living here is worth it, especially for those who want kids. It's the same story in all the coastal CA metro areas.
The population is increasing from people having more kids (especially poor people) and people moving to CA from outside the US. People in Asia are used to paying through the nose for housing and OC is not overcrowded compared to where they came from.
I've shared my story before on here and I don't mind repeating it if ya'll ain't bored with it and if it would help someone.
I consider my husband and myself to be middle income or maybe even middle-upper. His current favorite saying to me is, "Stop being poor".
I grew up poor and still live, well, kinda, as if I was poor.
He and I just bought a nice house in Garden Grove last summer. Even after 20% down, we have a good rainy day fund, our budget for private school/day care is $1000/month--yikes! He maxes out his 401k, I max out my Roth IRA contributions, we tithe, eat out when we want, we have gadgets, don't smoke, gamble, and have no debt (other than this house mortgage).
We are very, very fortunate. I realize that. He and I didn't have too much when we got married. What we did w/o the help of family or the government?
1. Dual income: He was just an intern when I met him, but now makes great money. I've been at a non-profit for almost 20+ years. While it's not a lot, I realize now after reading stories in the paper that my income is what a family of 4 survives on. I was shocked and count my blessings.
2. Live within our means: Our cars were used off Craigslist. We paid cash. I bargain shop as much as I can and eat leftovers for lunch; thus the "stop being poor" comment from my husband. Target clearances are my addiction: $3-$7 dresses, $4 blouses, etc. My patio set came from craigslist. I only pay full-price for birthday gifts or when I really have to.
3. Sacrifice: He and I were able to save a lot of money by renting cheap apts in decent areas. Our first place after getting married was in Orange for under $1000, then we moved to a 2 bedroom in Westminster that was $1000/month. When we were offered the apt manager's position, I jumped at it. We moved into the 3 bedroom manager's unit for $950, which later decreased to $850 after I was able to work from home. We already had our 20% down by that point, but was putting our firstborn into private school.
I had a lot of debt before I married, but worked 2 f/t jobs to pay the debt off. I did directory assistance for probably 3-4 years until I felt carpel tunnel developing, so I quit. Fortunately, that debt was basically paid off by then.
Likewise, I managed the apt and worked f/t from home, taking care of the kids, etc., until I could stand it no more. After 2 or 3 years of dealing with people and being "on-call" 24 hours/day, the stress was affecting my health (again), so I quit that. Sometimes you have to make sacrifices. I also learned to buy and resale things on ebay and made good money each time. No time for that now.
My previous landlord and I tried to talk a young childless couple into taking over as apt manager. They wanted to buy a house, too, but I knew apt management was not their style. They really should've done it, though. So many of the managers left after being able to save money to buy a house. They are an active couple at their church, etc., and yes, cleaning the apt grounds and showing apts to people is unpleasant, but when opportunities like this comes a knockin' you should go for it.
I see the struggle though. I wonder how many middle class families make it too. It is possible. Remember, I had debt and after paying it off, I had to rebuild from nothing. I was crying on the phone when a lawyer came after me for $1500. My husband was a college student when he and I married; he didn't have a whole lot, either.
As I was paying off my debt, I needed a car and bought an old Rodeo that broke down a lot and had transmission problems. When I had "real" money to spend, I got a gently used $4000 Buick LeSabre from an old woman who had just passed away. My husband drove a beat up Mazda Protoge when I met him. He bought a salvaged Nissan Sentra after that.
I am very fortunate, but it's hard work still. I thought of quitting my job last summer, but I have awesome bosses who helped lighten my workload. I'll sacrifice, work and make it work until I can't stands it no 'mo...
I don't know how others do it, but I can tell you briefly how I do it. It takes financial discipline to live here and still save in my 401k for persons of my/our income level.
· Cooking and eating out less frequently (and when I eat out, I don't usually order alcohol unless it is a special occasion);
· Not gambling;
· Bringing a lunch to work every day;
· Maintaining no other debts other than mortgage (credit cards paid monthly);
· Not commuting (saving on gas) (People should try and live close to work!);
· Driving a paid for, economical, gas saving car;
· Careful spending on nutritious food;
· Not buying any crap that I don't need;
· Budgeting carefully for vacations, e.g. I often go "all inclusive" (German style);
· Abstaining from buying the latest gadgets that only waste my money; and
Doing my own gardening and pool maintenance whereas many of my neighbors pay others to do these.
The kids aren't well taken care of. If there's no extended family, they're raised in day care. Either that, or people don't have kids. As another poster said, this is why many Caucasians simply leave. They don't think the cost of living here is worth it, especially for those who want kids. It's the same story in all the coastal CA metro areas.
The population is increasing from people having more kids (especially poor people) and people moving to CA from outside the US. People in Asia are used to paying through the nose for housing and OC is not overcrowded compared to where they came from.
Yup, pretty much this.
There are a lot of latch key kids, kids who see their nanny more than they see their actual parents, it's just the reality of dual income home ownership.
Here's our story:
I grew up in Riverside, husband grew up in OC. We met in college (went to a CSU - cheap!), I had a merit (based on GPA, not "need-based") scholarship that paid my tuition so I just worked part time and graduated with no debt. Husband's parents paid his tuition, so no debt for him. We were both engineering majors - didn't pick some bogus major and then wonder why there were no jobs for us (what do people do with a philosophy major, anyway? Besides asking "Do you want fries with that?"). After graduating, I shared an apartment with my brother, and my husband (then boyfriend) moved back in with his parents - we scrimped and saved every penny we could, and paid for our own wedding and 5% down on a house (foreclosure, fixer upper). We did NOT buy what we were pre-approved for, we bought cheaper to save money (just because a lender will lend it to you, doesn't mean you should take it). That was in 2008, when prices were plummeting (we were a little before the bottom, but since it was a foreclosure, it was pretty cheap and we were never underwater later on, even with only 5% down). Did almost all the work on it ourselves (drywall, tile flooring, refinished wood floors, painted, cleaned, installed sprinklers, planted lawn/shrubs, etc.). Only thing we hired out was for a new central heater/ac system, since we don't know anything about that. Saved big bucks doing as much as we could ourselves.
Since buying our house, we have continued to live well below our means, to the point where our friends and relatives think we're crazy. No cable tv or internet, clipped coupons, bought clothes on sale/clearance only, no vacations, etc. Heck, we only just got smart phones last year - so now we can finally have some internet access at home (MetroPCS, $35/line, cheap!). We lived so frugally, we were able to save up enough money for a down payment on a rental property here in OC as well (bought in 2010, so right around the bottom in OC). We continued living frugally, and combined with the extra profit from our rental we have since bought 2 rentals in AZ as well as a (used) vehicle to replace one of our old ones.
One major decision that we made was to put off having kids until we could afford for me to be a stay at home mom. So many couples opt to have kids when they both need to work, and that often locks those parents into working for so much longer. We have decided to sacrifice fun and kids in our 20s so we can afford kids on one income, since having a stay at home parent is very important to us. Guess what - we have already reached the goal of being able to live off one income + rental profit!
So many people claim they are struggling to make ends meet, but I look at their lifestyle and wonder why they waste so much money on cable, the latest tech gadgets, eating out, fancy coffee, nice clothes/accessories, trips, cars, etc. It's their choice, but they'll be struggling financially as long as they live like that.
To specifically address your questions:
1) Wages to cost of living. Real Estate and rents are not even close with wages. How do people afford this? How do young people buy(and afford) real estate? If you rent, its impossible to save enough to get ahead.
- Desirable areas always have a higher COL-to-wages ratio. As long as you get a decent job and live frugally, you can make it.
2) Cost of living/taxes. This kind of goes hand in hand with the first but everything is soooo expensive. Then throw in those CA taxes and it only makes it worse.
- Yes, COL and taxes are high in CA. There's no getting around that. Just live frugally.
3) Overcrowding - congestion and traffic is ridiculous. Most middle class have to commute, how do people put up with a 45 minute 20 mile drive twice a day???
- My husband drives about 17 miles to work. He opted to leave the house at 6am and leave work at 4am so his commute is 20-30 minutes each way, rather than the 60-90 minutes it would be if he left later. I take surface streets to go the 6 miles to my work, and I'm going against traffic both ways. We also strategically bought a home between our jobs to reduce commute miles/times.
4) I am in no way a racist and I enjoy diversity, however, if you happen to be caucasian and want to live somewhere where you feel comfortable, where do you live if you are middle class? I guess RSM and deep South County are really the only places left.
- We live in north OC and there are plenty of great areas where most/all people speak English. Brea, Yorba Linda, Anaheim Hills, Orange, and parts of Fullerton and Tustin are good areas with good schools. I'm sure there are other good areas in north OC too, I just don't go to them, so I don't know.
Galaxie Girl--your husband is lucky to have such a prudent wife! Woohoo! Good for you guys! I wish my husband would "sacrifice" more. He and I have talked about buying a rental. Believe me, it was tough being an on-site manager for a small apt complex, so you'd think I would steer clear of being a landlord, but I know it's a great opportunity. I just have to find the right rental. He and I have enough now for a down, but having just "bought" a house, we're going to wait for the dust to settle first.
I was happy to read your comments about how "cheap" CSU is. My husband worked as much as he could, didn't get any scholarships and got his Bachelor's in Computer Science without loans. He finished his upper courses first which allowed him to get an internship in his field where he got hands-on experience. Then he tackled the lower courses and his employer paid for part of the college costs. Still, I was shocked when he told me how cheap tuition was. Why are people getting loans? I got scholarships, but never worked in my industry. What a waste, but at least I didn't get into debt.
I have loved all my visits to south county, but I agree that there are a lot of great English-speaking neighborhoods in other parts of the county. I have 2 Asian families immediately next to me and the rest are all White folks. Nice, quiet, friendly tract.
Regarding kids raised by working parents--it's not true that the kids get neglected. I agree and understand the comment, but some of my sister's friends are stay-at-home moms and their kids hit, push, lie, steal, etc. They are rude not just to other people, but they talk back to their parents and their parents allow them. Yes, the kids get reprimanded the first few times, but there's no follow-through on discipline. It's all about parenting skills. Parents can be stressed out after a long day at work and still put in time for their kids. It may not be a lot, but it's the quality of time spent, not how much time.
I am so fortunate to be able to work from home with flexible work hours so I can pick the kids up from school. My son's preschool goes to 6 pm without daycare charges to cater to working families. My daughter's private school has daycare charges from 3-6. I don't know what public schools offer. I had 500+ hours of vacation before my company capped it off last year at 160. Now I'm forced to take personal time off or I lose it, so I get to play with kids and work on the house more.
I thought of quitting my job last summer, though. It is still so tough to work at home . I struggle with dinner almost each night. The house is clean (I love cleaning house), but dishes pile up. My husband makes enough and we have savings, but you know what? I would still want my son to be in the $500+/month preschool. He learns sooo much there. He's 3 and can count to 30 forward and backwards. He can write his name. He knows all sorts of shapes, letters, numbers...songs...reading comprehension. Sure, I can count to 50 and I remember most of my alphabet , but I'm not a teacher. I could never give him the foundation he's getting now and he's learning to sit and listen to his teachers and interact with his peers. It's a lot of money, but so worth it.
I hope more people write in and share how they are making it work. My sister and her husband live on one income and they have a beautiful house in Long Beach. Student loans paid off, cars paid off...she's cheap like me--ha, ha. They live within their means.
I've written about another friend who bought her house in the 90s. When many people refinanced to buy toys and later default on their loan, she and her husband refinanced and paid off their mortgage. 40-year olds, too. I did a happy dance when she told me that.
So there are a lot of people living paycheck-to-paycheck (almost all of my husband's coworkers--student loans, hefty mortgage or rent, yet they spend $ on high-end cameras, brand new cars, etc.), but there's a lot of money-wise middle classers out there. California is expensive. Kids are expensive. Working and commuting can be exhausting. Home ownership is awesome. It's all possible. It's how you spend your money and what you do with your time.
Speaking of which, I have to get back to work...
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Besides asking "Do you want fries with that?"). After graduating, I shared an apartment with my brother, and my husband (then boyfriend) moved back in with his parents - we scrimped and saved every penny we could, and paid for our own wedding and 5% down on a house (foreclosure, fixer upper). We did NOT buy what we were pre-approved for, we bought cheaper to save money (just because a lender will lend it to you, doesn't mean you should take it). That was in 2008, when prices were plummeting (we were a little before the bottom, but since it was a foreclosure, it was pretty cheap and we were never underwater later on, even with only 5% down). Did almost all the work on it ourselves (drywall, tile flooring, refinished wood floors, painted, cleaned, installed sprinklers, planted lawn/shrubs, etc.). Only thing we hired out was for a new central heater/ac system, since we don't know anything about that. Saved big bucks doing as much as we could ourselves.
. I struggle with dinner almost each night. The house is clean (I love cleaning house), but dishes pile up. My husband makes enough and we have savings, but you know what? I would still want my son to be in the $500+/month preschool. He learns sooo much there. He's 3 and can count to 30 forward and backwards. He can write his name. He knows all sorts of shapes, letters, numbers...songs...reading comprehension. Sure, I can count to 50 and I remember most of my alphabet 
