Condo dwelling urbanists vs. the predicted death of the suburbs, yet OC still stands (Los Angeles: for sale, real estate)

[denverian]

Originally Posted by LuvSouthOC

We are told over and over that the suburbs are not where people are supposed to live. We are told that the suburbs are dead and that no one (no self respecting person, in any case) wants to live in them. Only regressive blue-haired troglodytes are supposed to like the 'burbs. Then there is peak oil, long commutes, obesity, high carbon footprints, usage of too many resources, etc.

We are also lectured to about the supposed desires of millennials. They, we are told, abhor the 'burbs as "soulless", find them to be devoid of culture, and horribly car-centric. We are never told whether the housing desires of millennials might change once they are done sowing their oats once they hit their 30s and 40s. We are never told whether millennials would like one day to no longer worry about increases in their rent.

If the urbanists are correct, why is notoriously suburban (albeit fairly dense) OC so terribly and unrelentingly expensive?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8dZGCx-Oxx0

Overreact much? lol!

No one is "telling you" where you can/can't, should/shouldn't live. I personally prefer more urban areas, but it's not practical with 2 kids and a dog. Once the kids are gone off to college, we'll most likely downsize to a condo or townhouse in a more urban area though.

[denverian]

Originally Posted by mbell75

Interesting, but did you ever stop and think of all the many people who live where they live because they don't want or need to live around big shopping areas and a bunch of restaurants and bars? People that couldn't care less about walking around in some "downtown" area. That brings traffic, noise and clutter to an area that they probably moved to to avoid all that. You can see people who live in areas like HB (as mentioned above) and Newport Beach fighting against big housing, hotel and retail developments in their area because they don't want everything it brings. They aren't concerned about not being able to walk around a built up area or a downtown.

Personally, I'm all about convenience. I hate driving and like to minimize my time in my car. Where we lived in Orange, it was quite convenient, even though there wasn't very much within a 5-10 min. walk from our condo. But we were within a 5 min. or less drive from pretty much everything I could possibly need (gym, 5 grocery stores, movies, many restaurants, other retail, downtown Orange). That's why we eliminated living in the hills when we looked for a condo, because while you get views in the hills, it's terribly inconvenient to stores in most instances.

[denverian]

Originally Posted by NOLA101

Who ever predicted the "death of the suburbs"? That makes no sense.

Just because cities thrive doesn't mean suburbs will decline. You really think rich suburbs on Long Island or in Connecticut are hurting if Manhattan booms?

Oh they'll die all right. Probably the same day the asteroid hits earth or Yellowstone blows and takes us all out

[denverian]

Originally Posted by LuvSouthOC

Many predict the end of suburbs. I am not sure how you are unaware of this fact. I think that is part of the discussion. Of course not all suburbs will die and that is part of the point of the thread. OC is one such place where suburbs are not going to die at least in my opinion.

The suburbs don't appear to really exist in extremely high density cities in other countries where people can't afford cars. As U.S. cities grow, I can see much more density and high rise development in many cities. When OC is completely built out, then the only way to add more housing will be "up", and then it may start becoming more urban. I could see LA/OC 100 years from now looking very different, but nobody's going to bulldoze all the suburban homes.

[LuvSouthOC]

Originally Posted by denverian

The suburbs don't appear to really exist in extremely high density cities in other countries where people can't afford cars. As U.S. cities grow, I can see much more density and high rise development in many cities. When OC is completely built out, then the only way to add more housing will be "up", and then it may start becoming more urban. I could see LA/OC 100 years from now looking very different, but nobody's going to bulldoze all the suburban homes.

I agree with the gist of what you're saying. By the way, as realtors will tell you, OC is nearly completely built out at least in the traditional 'burb sense.

[RudyOD]

Orange County will continue, as it has been for the last couple decades, as a leader in the country in continuously re-defining the way Americans live, work and play as well as its urban form.

OC as an overall entity appears to be in limbo, as in few people consider it to be urban in the sense that the cores of Chicago, San Francisco, Manhattan, or even Los Angeles (from downtown all the way to Santa Monica) is, but few people would consider it a traditional suburb as well. As our cities have sprawled until finally becoming one big Orange sea, there is no room for sprawl, and the majority of open land that is left is mostly protected wilderness. Therefore, what's left in OC is infill development.

You see such projects all over the county. I believe that we will see two models of growth, one with Anaheim (and Irvine) leading the way in new-urbanism, with the Platinum Triangle being the center for this type of growth where you see high rise condominiums popping up all over the place, in what used to be older strip malls or tract housing. Santa Ana provides the second model, based around a central core, and this growth is primarily based on rejuvenation mixed in with some redevelopment. Though Santa Ana will stand out in OC due its fundamental structure, I think Anaheim is the model that most OC's cities will follow as it is simply more relevant to their realities.

You see the difference in the Anaheim vs. Santa Ana growth paradox most clear when you consider that the city (Anaheim) largely ignores its own historic downtown area in favor of the new districts it has established around its entertainment zone (AConnext | Anaheim Transit. Where You Want to Go.). Whereas Santa Ana is shifting a lot of its resources on its downtown, and the streetcar (unlike Anaheim's) will past through downtown. I'm not arguing one is right or wrong, but it is clear the way these two cities are choosing to develop, and it will continue to give them very distinct vibes, even as both continue to become more urbanized. I think a similar comparison within LA county has been the touristy focus of Santa Monica vs. the cultural focus of Old Town Pasadena.

Personally, I think having both models is GOOD as it means that OC residents have much more options/variety to choose from, and therefore makes it an overall more exciting place to live than the sleepy farm town suburbs (Buena Park/La Palma/Cypress were still known for their dairy back in the 1950's!) of yesteryear.

[HyperionGap]

I think it makes sense for Anaheim and Santa Ana to develop differently. Anaheim is catering to tourists, convention goers, and out of town visitors. These types like franchise restaurants, bars, and venues that are safe and a known commodity. E.g. Cheesecake Factory, cpk, applebees, etc.

Santa Ana, on the other hand, is looking to build its downtown to appeal to the local population.

[dexter14]

Originally Posted by denverian

Personally, I'm all about convenience. I hate driving and like to minimize my time in my car. Where we lived in Orange, it was quite convenient, even though there wasn't very much within a 5-10 min. walk from our condo. But we were within a 5 min. or less drive from pretty much everything I could possibly need (gym, 5 grocery stores, movies, many restaurants, other retail, downtown Orange). That's why we eliminated living in the hills when we looked for a condo, because while you get views in the hills, it's terribly inconvenient to stores in most instances.

Yep, I agree. This is part of the reason Ive hesitated to move to Newport Beach, CDM or Laguna recently. The neighborhood Im in here in Anaheim is very nice but it gets dicey just a few blocks away as its low income with a good amount of gang activity and crime which doesn't particularly sit well with me. It was not as bad as it is now even 8 years ago when I moved here. However, I chose this area when I first moved back to OC so I would only be a 5-10 minute drive (or less) from sporting events, concerts, Disney, events at the convention center, outdoor shopping malls etc...I also have multiple grocery stores and a ton of restaurants and bars within a few minutes drive. If I move to Newport or Laguna, I gain easy beach access and Fashion Island but I have to drive 20-30 minutes (more with traffic) for everything else I listed above. Rents have been increasing tremendously, even in the more run-down parts of Anaheim, so hopefully they increase to the point the criminal element is forced to leave the area and it becomes the much nicer city it was back in the 80s when I was a kid. We'll see.

[jamsifoes]

Originally Posted by mbell75

Rents have been increasing tremendously, even in the more run-down parts of Anaheim, so hopefully they increase to the point the criminal element is forced to leave the area and it becomes the much nicer city it was back in the 80s when I was a kid. We'll see.

Guess where the criminals will go when the rents in Anaheim increase. Hint: Two words.

[RudyOD]

Originally Posted by jamsifoes

Guess where the criminals will go when the rents in Anaheim increase. Hint: Two words.

Inland Empire.