Millennials simply can't afford to live in OC (appraisal, county)

[Racer46]

Originally Posted by Ultrarunner

Little consolation now but I did counsel a few co-workers and friends 2009-12 buy opportunity of a lifetime.

Several jumped in and still thank me... One a single mom RN and her parents even advised against it...

So many... even in-laws were walking away from very nice homes and cut housing cost by 50% but we all know what has happened since.

I live in Oakland CA and not a single block in my city was spared... many had multiple foreclosures.

Part of the problem may be cultural... few take a long term view of things...

When I bought my 85 year old sellers moving to assisted living paid 1200 annual and the day I bought it went to 8800... Never once was I bothered by this is I hope to be in the same situation in 40+ years...

Yes buying when prices drop is a good idea. Buying when the rise is also not bad as they will rise again even if they drop in a while. They always go up as the population increases. The key is have a decent job and save, save, save, don't party, party, party, buy, buy, buy, etc.

[mr_california]

Originally Posted by Dave Coe

Proposition 13 Protects Elderly Homeowners, But Hurts Young Families:

https://timesofsandiego.com/politics...oung-families/

I have young kids and I own a house. If Prop 13 were not in effect and my property taxes were adjusted every year to the market rate value of the home (as was done before Prop 13 was passed), my taxes would be sky high, especially with the way home prices are increasing. I would be looking to move because repealing Prop 13 would hurt my family. California has the highest state income taxes, highest sales tax and highest gas taxes. It's nice to not have the highest property taxes, which would be the case were it not for Prop 13.

[joejerryronnie]

If you want to see commie leftists and far-right trumpers bury the hatchet and come together for a common cause, try repealing prop 13

[Dave Coe]

https://robertstark.substack.com/p/t...g-and-property

"California’s existing framework on property taxation has its origins in a tax revolt that led to the passage of prop 13 in 1978, a citizens initiative which freezes property taxes at the rate of when a property is first assessed. California’s property taxation laws have unique attributes but overall tax rates rank in the mid-range nationally, compared to the highest in Texas, Illinois, and New Jersey, and the lowest in Hawaii, Alabama, and Colorado.

Besides the debate about whether tax rates are too high or too low, there is the issue of split roll. This means that under prop 13 one’s neighbor often pays vastly less in taxes on a home that is worth the same market value due to living their much longer. The tax fairness map shows the degree to which prop 13 subsidizes the ultra-wealthy and the extreme tax disparities that exist within the same neighborhoods. Split role is particularly unfair to new buyers and protects the elderly but at the expense of young families.

The left’s opposition to prop 13 is primarily about the tax revenue, especially for funding public education, however the Democratic Party in California has failed to propose any reasonable reform to split role that would be fairer to families and new buyers. Other issues include incentivizing empty nesters to stay put rather than downsizing, which would not be a problem if there was a greater supply. Due to the housing scarcity, prop 13 has contributed to the ageing of the most desirable neighborhoods and a lack of inventory for younger buyers and families looking to get a foothold. It has even caused some wealthy California cities to go bankrupt.

Last fall two measures were put forth on the ballot that would have restructured prop 13. Proposition 15, which failed, would have ended prop 13 protections but only for commercial real estate. The proposition failed due to confusion, on the part some, as to if the measure would apply to residential properties, and concern, for others, that it would be a slippery slope to ending tax protections for residential property.

I reluctantly supported prop 15, but with some reservations. The best case to be made for supporting that measure was that it would have been good for urbanism due to taxing underutilized properties such as parking lots, vacant lots, and empty storefronts. This could have improved blighted urban areas, and helped retrofit suburbia by incentivizing mixed use development, and the creation of more walkable communities.

The other reason for support was the taxation of legacy corporations and the wealthiest commercial landlords who have an unfair advantage over newer businesses. Some extreme examples of beneficiaries under the existing laws include the wall street firm “The Blackstone Group/Boston Properties” underpaying by: At least $6 million,” “DisneyUnderpaying by: At least $25.8 million per year (and probably way more)”, “Los Angeles Country ClubUnderpaying by: $1.6 million”, and “Chevron Underpaying by: $100 million.” The potential downsides of this measure were the lack of accountability for the revenue that could further empower inefficient state bureaucracies, and also concerns about passing down the costs to consumers, even if this measure did offer protections for small businesses.

The other measure, which did pass, was prop 19. Prop 19 makes prop 13 protections portable for those looking to relocate, but only for those over the age of 55. Making prop 13 portable benefits retirees but eliminates tax protections for heirs and is an overall tax hike, as the tax raise on heirs is greater than the short term protections for the elderly. The tax increase on heirs would apply to homes worth $1 Million or more which could impact middle class millennials taking into account whether inheritance is split up between heirs and that California’s median home price reached an all-time high at “ $758,990, up 8.6 percent from February and up 23.9 percent from March 2020.”

The passage of this measure is flat out ageist and could exacerbate the intergenerational wealth gap in a state where the median net worth of Baby Boomers is $230,000 compared to Millennials with a net worth of $10,000. California’s Boomers also have homeownership rates close to the national average, but those of ages 25 to 34 have rates approximately 40% below the national average.

However there are some incentives for older homeowners to downsize which has led to a spike in property transfers to heirs which could open up new listings, potentially easing demand in some places while increasing demand in others. This is why, besides senior citizen special interests, the primary backing was from the real estate industry. The passage of Prop 19 grants well-off seniors financial perks but with the catch that their descendants pay up. It is the worst of both worlds in that it partially fulfills an agenda to redistribute wealth away from the middle class but is indirect by passing down the taxes to heirs rather than taxing wealthy homeowners directly."

[Ultrarunner]

Prop 19 great for Realtors and why Realtors funded it...

Not a single Realtor I polled knew if effectively ended parent/child transfer... each said it allowed seniors to relocate...

[Dave Coe]

Originally Posted by Ultrarunner

Prop 19 great for Realtors and why Realtors funded it...

Not a single Realtor I polled knew if effectively ended parent/child transfer... each said it allowed seniors to relocate...

Yes mostly realtors and some senior special interest.

"Despite these concerns, the measure was backed by the Democratic establishment in California. There was support for both prop. 15 and prop.19 from Governor Gavin Newsom (D), State Controller Betty Yee (D), and the California Democratic Party. Opposition to both measures was from the conservative anti-tax organization and architect of the original prop 13, the Howard Jarvis Taxpayers Association. Support for prop. 15 but opposition to prop. Prop. 19 was from the ACLU of Southern California and the League of Women Voters of California, and support for prop. 19 but opposition to prop. 15 was form California NAACP State Conference, California Black Chamber of Commerce, California Business Roundtable, and the California Hispanic Chambers of Commerce."

https://robertstark.substack.com/p/t...g-and-property

[1AngryTaxPayer]

Originally Posted by Ultrarunner

Prop 13 is the same for all... no age or length of ownership requirements...

Maybe it is inflation hurting young families as purchasing power erodes?

This. It protects everyone. I can't believe how many people are rooting to give even more money of their own to the government.

[amokk]

Originally Posted by 1AngryTaxPayer

This. It protects everyone. I can't believe how many people are rooting to give even more money of their own to the government.

I'm loving this prop 13 stuff. Bought a house in 2020 which has increased in value by roughly $400-$500K in the past year. That would translate to an additional $5,000 a year in property taxes. Instead it's an increase of 2%.

Any home owner that doesn't support prop 13 is insane.

[TacoSoup]

Originally Posted by amokk

I'm loving this prop 13 stuff. Bought a house in 2020 which has increased in value by roughly $400-$500K in the past year. That would translate to an additional $5,000 a year in property taxes. Instead it's an increase of 2%.

Any home owner that doesn't support prop 13 is insane.

And every aspiring homeowner, and every renter. What do people think will happen to monthly housing costs if property taxes go up? Do they honestly believe theirs will go down if their longtime home owning neighbor’s taxes go up? Instead of saying we need more money for this or that, or the system isn’t fair, how about demanding better fiscal responsibility from our elected officials?

Prop 13 is about as fair as it gets. Now could things get tweaked with corporations and the land barons that own massive amounts of property, sure? But once you open that box there’s no stopping our tax and spend government from going after individuals that may have a couple of properties, and later every homeowner.

[DabOnEm]

Originally Posted by TacoSoup

And every aspiring homeowner, and every renter. What do people think will happen to monthly housing costs if property taxes go up? Do they honestly believe theirs will go down if their longtime home owning neighbor’s taxes go up? Instead of saying we need more money for this or that, or the system isn’t fair, how about demanding better fiscal responsibility from our elected officials?

Prop 13 is about as fair as it gets. Now could things get tweaked with corporations and the land barons that own massive amounts of property, sure? But once you open that box there’s no stopping our tax and spend government from going after individuals that may have a couple of properties, and later every homeowner.

Prop 13 or not, this will happen anywhere for the average/independent property owner. The big land owning corporations that get "federal" reserve money aren't going anywhere though.