Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
That's another thing I just don't get. Why not have a decent metro/subway system in the area that would allow ppl to take transit to and from work quickly, easily, and reasonably without having to drive in awful rush hr traffic for an hr or more each way every single day??
Partly because people just go with what they're used to. They're used to car oriented transit, so that's what they want. It doesn't help that California doesn't do transit projects efficiently. Just look at the high speed rail train boondoggle.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunny_View
And I don't understand why building newer homes (even rental communities) is a problem. And crowds....well CA is a HUGE state with loads of land, I just don't see why newer communities can't be built so that demand isn't so high ALL the time.
I don't, either. The short version is environmental rules & regs jack up the cost. Also, NIMBYs, many of whom love to wring their hands about the plight of the poor and middle class, are the first ones to agree that we need more housing....until it gets proposed in their neighborhoods. Then, the litany of excuses begins. So, in short, it's a "me first" type of attitude. We are quick to notice this attitude in other people, but not in ourselves.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunny_View
Btw, looks like I'm not theONLY one who feels that CA is over priced.
Well, it's quite obvious. But that's the easy part. The hard part is getting people to connect the dots as to WHY it's expensive. Some Californians here on CD just don't give a crap about other people. They want to limit population growth and make no bones about it. They are usually liberal types who love to gripe about the greed of conservatives, but who really don't give a crap about poor and middle class people who can't afford decent housing at anything resembling affordable prices.
Then you have a much larger group of people who aren't quite as extreme. They get that housing here is expensive, but they don't understand they "whys" behind it. Rules and regulations are boring. They're also invisible to the Average Joe. They're not listed as separate line items when you buy your house. The lack of new housing supply also can't be calculated and listed as a line item on the price of the house you buy or the apartment you rent. So these people move to new places in the U.S. and support the same kind of policies that drove up the cost of housing in CA. Witness how places like Portland and Seattle are reaching California price levels---and for mostly the same reasons. Most people just look at the surface of things and don't try to connect the dots. It doesn't reflect well on humanity, but whoomp, there it is.
In answer to your question, Iwould only charge what I needed to live reasonably. I wouldn't hike the price up "just because" I could. Not every year. Not $100, $400 more a month. Not if I didn't have to. But then again, I guess I'm not most ppl. #shrug
That phrase "live reasonably" is quite vague. Everyone has a different idea of what that is. And our brains are programmed to want more, without us even realizing it. That's why people's spending magically rises as their incomes go up. It's why people win millions of dollars in the lottery but are typically back to being broke within 5 years. Almost everyone wants more and very, very, few have learned to tame that inner beast.
So your thinking here fits into that category of "I would never do that because I'm the exception". You'll have to excuse me for being dubious about those kinds of statements.
That phrase "live reasonably" is quite vague. Everyone has a different idea of what that is. And our brains are programmed to want more, without us even realizing it. That's why people's spending magically rises as their incomes go up. It's why people win millions of dollars in the lottery but are typically back to being broke within 5 years. Almost everyone wants more and very, very, few have learned to tame that inner beast.
So your thinking here fits into that category of "I would never do that because I'm the exception". You'll have to excuse me for being dubious about those kinds of statements.
That phrase "live reasonably" is quite vague. Everyone has a different idea of what that is. And our brains are programmed to want more, without us even realizing it. That's why people's spending magically rises as their incomes go up. It's why people win millions of dollars in the lottery but are typically back to being broke within 5 years. Almost everyone wants more and very, very, few have learned to tame that inner beast.
So your thinking here fits into that category of "I would never do that because I'm the exception". You'll have to excuse me for being dubious about those kinds of statements.
I'm not even dubious. I think it's outright dishonesty.
Quote:
Some potential tenant: "I can offer you $2500 to rent a unit if it's available."
Sunny_View: "Oh no no, I already have an offer to rent the unit for $1500. Nothing is signed but I want to be fair to people who don't make as much money."
Partly because people just go with what they're used to. They're used to car oriented transit, so that's what they want. It doesn't help that California doesn't do transit projects efficiently. Just look at the high speed rail train boondoggle.
I don't, either. The short version is environmental rules & regs jack up the cost. Also, NIMBYs, many of whom love to wring their hands about the plight of the poor and middle class, are the first ones to agree that we need more housing....until it gets proposed in their neighborhoods. Then, the litany of excuses begins. So, in short, it's a "me first" type of attitude. We are quick to notice this attitude in other people, but not in ourselves.
Well, it's quite obvious. But that's the easy part. The hard part is getting people to connect the dots as to WHY it's expensive. Some Californians here on CD just don't give a crap about other people. They want to limit population growth and make no bones about it. They are usually liberal types who love to gripe about the greed of conservatives, but who really don't give a crap about poor and middle class people who can't afford decent housing at anything resembling affordable prices.
Then you have a much larger group of people who aren't quite as extreme. They get that housing here is expensive, but they don't understand they "whys" behind it. Rules and regulations are boring. They're also invisible to the Average Joe. They're not listed as separate line items when you buy your house. The lack of new housing supply also can't be calculated and listed as a line item on the price of the house you buy or the apartment you rent. So these people move to new places in the U.S. and support the same kind of policies that drove up the cost of housing in CA. Witness how places like Portland and Seattle are reaching California price levels---and for mostly the same reasons. Most people just look at the surface of things and don't try to connect the dots. It doesn't reflect well on humanity, but whoomp, there it is.
Part of it is that Californians are not smart at all as an average or median. This is backed by school scores and achievement and by voting patterns.
Californians complain all the time about cost of living, regulations, and taxes, yet they vote the same way for the past 50 years. Now the state is going to experience one of the biggest gas tax hikes in the countries history, and you have people on this very forum defending it and the politicians who wrote it (all Democrats).
Part of it is that Californians are not smart at all as an average or median. This is backed by school scores and achievement and by voting patterns.
Californians complain all the time about cost of living, regulations, and taxes, yet they vote the same way for the past 50 years. Now the state is going to experience one of the biggest gas tax hikes in the countries history, and you have people on this very forum defending it and the politicians who wrote it (all Democrats).
maybe its the 33% of the nation that gets welfare..CA has only 12% of the population but it has 1/3 of all the recipients..
That phrase "live reasonably" is quite vague. Everyone has a different idea of what that is. And our brains are programmed to want more, without us even realizing it. That's why people's spending magically rises as their incomes go up. It's why people win millions of dollars in the lottery but are typically back to being broke within 5 years. Almost everyone wants more and very, very, few have learned to tame that inner beast.
So your thinking here fits into that category of "I would never do that because I'm the exception". You'll have to excuse me for being dubious about those kinds of statements.
I'm not saying I'm some kind of special exception, I'm just saying that I just wasn't raised that way. I was raised with different moral values I guess. I don't see the need to gouge someone just because I CAN.
I only say that it's overpriced because there are so many other areas that are so much CHEAPER (and decent) and people can actually own HOMES in those areas and don't even have to rent.
There used to be a time when renting an apt was a more "affordable" option for those who couldn't buy. Back when rent was maybe $900 perhaps. But with the quick rate of increase these days, you can barely afford to rent now.
But yet! You're "too rich" for the govt. subsidized housing, yet too "poor" for standard housing... I mean... come on.... Something has got to give.
If others can't see that the country in general is squeeeeeezing out the "middle bracket" of society, then, I don't know what to tell you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaliRestoration
I'm not even dubious. I think it's outright dishonesty.
Some potential tenant: "I can offer you $2500 to rent a unit if it's available."
Sunny_View: "Oh no no, I already have an offer to rent the unit for $1500. Nothing is signed but I want to be fair to people who don't make as much money."
Right.
But the reverse is ALSO true! Why would someone offer ME (the landlord) $2500 (MORE money) when I'm only charging $1500?? That's silly imo. Just like the low rent will attract those who can only pay less, it can also attract those who can afford to pay more, but just don't want to.
When I say "greed" I mean OVERALL. You don't call it greed because you say it's the market. Well, ask yourself, what drives UP the market in the first place?? Yes, supply and demand. But there is an underlying reason why the cost of everything keeps going up. Greed is at the heart of it some where I guarantee you. Whether it's due to the developers, property owners, big corporations, regulations, etc. It exists SOMEWHERE. Hence, why people all around have to "adjust" and eventually end up charging more. But when you think about it, people can control their actions. Just because others are charging a lot more doesn't necessarily mean that you HAVE to charge more. That's a conscious CHOICE.
I guess I was just raised with the "do unto others as you would like done unto you" mentality. So if I don't want to be gouged, why would I gouge someone else?? Plain and simple. And yes, there are some properties where they don't charge the exorbitant rates, and just want nice, good, clean, respectable tenants. They don't care to raise the rent $100 every single year, because they would rather keep good dependable paying tenants there instead of having to look for new ones every single year.
And no, I don't consider PMC's being "generous" if the prices go down... But come, let's be honest....how often does a rental property go DOWN??? If it went down in the past it was only due to what you mention as the MARKET. It's true! PEople just couldn't afford to pay exorbitant prices when they were getting laid off left and right due to the worsening economy about 10 years ago.
That's why I said in my ORIGINAL message (not sure if you read this part or not) that consumers actually have more power than they realize. If EVERYONE collectively as a whole decided to just put their foot down and say "nope"....not going to stand for it anymore.... THe prices would be FORCED to go down. But we know that won't happen.
But because someone out there can pay it, the prices KEEP going up.
That may be fine and dandy to you now, but what happens when only foreigners who come over here from other countries are the ONLY ones who can actually afford to buy or purchase land/property/housing in YOUR area and you start to get squeezed out? Sure, you can "move" elsewhere cheaper...and hey, as long as SOMEONE can afford to live there, it's still "fair" right??
That's like saying it's "fair" for companies to outsource a lot of their jobs overseas and take away opportunities from the American people because it "SAVES" them money. Again...GREED. All about saving money, and getting the most profit, at the EXPENSE of others. It's smart when you think about it, but when does it become "too much"?? When does it start hurting the people who actually LIVE here?
Look, again, I'm not trying to start a debate or look down on others for moving to the USA and making the most of it and being able to afford higher-end areas (the opportunities is what makes this country so great). I'm just saying that little by little, the income gap is widening, and while it may not seem like a big deal to some of you, eventually later on it will start to affect a LOT of us.
A lot of young people in their mid-late 20's can't even barely afford to move out of their parent's homes, let alone BUY a house simply because of student loan debt from college, or just LOW-paying jobs in the first place. (Don't even get me started on how ridiculously expensive college tuition has gotten over the past 20 years) Most companies want the most "bang" for their buck, so they want someone with x-amount of years of experience, but yet, how are you supposed to get experience when you can't even get hired?? Ugh... Thank goodness I graduated college when I did. I feel for the younger ones now looking for work/trying to get paid what they are worth. Finding a "great job" straight out of college seems to be more of a pipe dream these days.
But I digress....
Anyway..... if you don't see a problem with how things are going, then I can't possibly change your mind, so we'll just have to agree that we just have different viewpoints and leave it at that.
But the reverse is ALSO true! Why would someone offer ME (the landlord) $2500 (MORE money) when I'm only charging $1500?? That's silly imo. Just like the low rent will attract those who can only pay less, it can also attract those who can afford to pay more, but just don't want to.
When I say "greed" I mean OVERALL. You don't call it greed because you say it's the market. Well, ask yourself, what drives UP the market in the first place?? Yes, supply and demand. But there is an underlying reason why the cost of everything keeps going up. Greed is at the heart of it some where I guarantee you. Whether it's due to the developers, property owners, big corporations, regulations, etc. It exists SOMEWHERE. Hence, why people all around have to "adjust" and eventually end up charging more. But when you think about it, people can control their actions. Just because others are charging a lot more doesn't necessarily mean that you HAVE to charge more. That's a conscious CHOICE.
I guess I was just raised with the "do unto others as you would like done unto you" mentality. So if I don't want to be gouged, why would I gouge someone else?? Plain and simple. And yes, there are some properties where they don't charge the exorbitant rates, and just want nice, good, clean, respectable tenants. They don't care to raise the rent $100 every single year, because they would rather keep good dependable paying tenants there instead of having to look for new ones every single year.
And no, I don't consider PMC's being "generous" if the prices go down... But come, let's be honest....how often does a rental property go DOWN??? If it went down in the past it was only due to what you mention as the MARKET. It's true! PEople just couldn't afford to pay exorbitant prices when they were getting laid off left and right due to the worsening economy about 10 years ago.
That's why I said in my ORIGINAL message (not sure if you read this part or not) that consumers actually have more power than they realize. If EVERYONE collectively as a whole decided to just put their foot down and say "nope"....not going to stand for it anymore.... THe prices would be FORCED to go down. But we know that won't happen.
But because someone out there can pay it, the prices KEEP going up.
That may be fine and dandy to you now, but what happens when only foreigners who come over here from other countries are the ONLY ones who can actually afford to buy or purchase land/property/housing in YOUR area and you start to get squeezed out? Sure, you can "move" elsewhere cheaper...and hey, as long as SOMEONE can afford to live there, it's still "fair" right??
That's like saying it's "fair" for companies to outsource a lot of their jobs overseas and take away opportunities from the American people because it "SAVES" them money. Again...GREED. All about saving money, and getting the most profit, at the EXPENSE of others. It's smart when you think about it, but when does it become "too much"?? When does it start hurting the people who actually LIVE here?
Look, again, I'm not trying to start a debate or look down on others for moving to the USA and making the most of it and being able to afford higher-end areas (the opportunities is what makes this country so great). I'm just saying that little by little, the income gap is widening, and while it may not seem like a big deal to some of you, eventually later on it will start to affect a LOT of us.
But anyway..... if you don't see a problem with how things are going, then I can't possibly change your mind, so we'll just have to agree that we have different viewpoints and leave it at that.
So according to your logic, you yourself are driven by GREED. You don't have to live in South OC, but you choose to try and live in a nice area because of GREED. You could live on less in a "lesser" area but because of your own GREED, you try and live in OC and complain about rental prices and other people's greed.
So why are you complaining? You are greedy, and you're dealing with greedy landlords. Seems like you deserve each other.
So according to your logic, you yourself are driven by GREED. You don't have to live in South OC, but you choose to try and live in a nice area because of GREED. You could live on less in a "lesser" area but because of your own GREED, you try and live in OC and complain about rental prices and other people's greed.
So why are you complaining? You are greedy, and you're dealing with greedy landlords. Seems like you deserve each other.
Wow...you're making a LOT of rash assumptions about me, and I don't appreciate it. That's rude and uncalled for. It's one thing to disagree w/someone, but another completely to assume you know someone online and to put down someone for differing views. You don't know me, so don't assume that you do.
How rude.
In answer to your question, I didn't move out here for "greed", and when I moved out here I had no idea of the disparity in pay. I assumed (like most would) that with a higher cost of living, the rate of pay would be commiserate with the COL. But alas, it doesn't seem like it is. I'm only in OC because this is where friends live. I don't know any other area very well, so I didn't move out here to be "greedy", just wanted some place to live as a single woman on my own.
Make no mistake however, I more than likely will NOT be retiring here in OC. I may not even still be living here in 5 years. Eventually I would like to own a house. Doesn't seem like that is something that is quite possible here as a single person.
Again, I'm not "greedy". Just trying to make a living. THANK YOU.
Wow...you're making a LOT of rash assumptions about me, and I don't appreciate it. That's rude and uncalled for. It's one thing to disagree w/someone, but another completely to assume you know someone online and to put down someone for differing views. You don't know me, so don't assume that you do.
How rude.
In answer to your question, I didn't move out here for "greed", and when I moved out here I had no idea of the disparity in pay. I assumed (like most would) that with a higher cost of living, the rate of pay would be commiserate with the COL. But alas, it doesn't seem like it is. I'm only in OC because this is where friends live. I don't know any other area very well, so I didn't move out here to be "greedy", just wanted some place to live as a single woman on my own.
Make no mistake however, I more than likely will NOT be retiring here in OC. I may not even still be living here in 5 years. Eventually I would like to own a house. Doesn't seem like that is something that is quite possible here as a single person.
Again, I'm not "greedy". Just trying to make a living. THANK YOU.
Do you think calling all landlords greedy for raising rents is a rash assumption? You don't know why they are raising rents, you're assuming they're raising them $400 for nothing, and that makes them greedy. That seems like a rash assumption on your part. Maybe you shouldn't be so rude to people who own property?
I feel that you wanting to live in OC and complain about rent is greedy and self serving. You're only thinking about your own situation and not the situation of property owners whose livelihood would be affected by rent control policies.
Also, why do you need a house?
Why not just a small condo, or live in a shared coop? Wanting an entire house for a lone "single woman" seems kind of greedy. That house would better serve a family instead of just one single person.
Last edited by CaliRestoration; 04-12-2017 at 11:06 AM..
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
