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Location: Live:Downtown Phoenix, AZ/Work:Greater Los Angeles, CA
27,606 posts, read 14,590,333 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LuvSouthOC
Yeah but to create housing stock for people in Arizona to move to, say, San Clemente might mean exerting eminent domain over the property, paying a "market" rate and then building whatever FirebirdCamaro1220 wants so the prices drops to a level he thinks appropriate, right? Current owners who refuse are "damn NIMBY's" who make San Clemente too expensive...right?
That's not what I'm arguing. You put words in my mouth. My point is, is that there is no reason that NW OC and the Gateway Cities in LA County should be as expensive as they are. These are not wealthy communities, there is not the same desire to live in Bell, Hawaiian Gardens or Maywood as there is in South OC. So it should be much cheaper in those areas than it is. See my point?
And anyways, if it just keeps getting more and more expensive, watch grocery stores, restaurants, bars, movie theaters, etc close their doors as they won't be able to pay competitive wages for the COL eventually.....
That's not what I'm arguing. You put words in my mouth. My point is, is that there is no reason that NW OC and the Gateway Cities in LA County should be as expensive as they are. These are not wealthy communities, there is not the same desire to live in Bell, Hawaiian Gardens or Maywood as there is in South OC. So it should be much cheaper in those areas than it is. See my point?
And anyways, if it just keeps getting more and more expensive, watch grocery stores, restaurants, bars, movie theaters, etc close their doors as they won't be able to pay competitive wages for the COL eventually.....
Or just watch all the teachers move to other more affordable states and there won't be teachers to teach in schools anymore and people will go scratching their heads, how come?
Or just watch all the teachers move to other more affordable states and there won't be teachers to teach in schools anymore and people will go scratching their heads, how come?
isn't it Arizona, Oklahoma are the states being deserted by teachers?
isn't it Arizona, Oklahoma are the states being deserted by teachers?
AZ has a reputation to do tax cuts over funding education. So yes we have the same problem, I know teachers are leaving Arizona because pay is too low for the COL to other states like WA, OR, or NM. It's a similar problem in CA. Not sure about OK. But it's politics, we the citizens have to change it.
You're stretching this too much. Spending 1/3 of your income on housing gives you the flexibility to save a reasonable amount of money for larger things like retirement... car, house renovation, unexpected emergencies, the vacation here and there, supporting family, etc.. Having vacations once a year and eating out every night will demolish those savings easily. You will not be living that type of lifestyle if you spend 30% of your income on housing.
But yes it is a choice. But how many people own up to making a bad choice? Cause if you look at the statistics, most Americans do not have a nickle saved for emergencies, nor enough for retirement, and most are in debt up to their eyeballs. That's just a fact. This starts with correctly setting priorities. Yes you need a roof over your head. But you don't need a roof that costs you an arm and a leg. etc... Nor do you need that fancy car with all the upgrades where you must take out a 7 year loan for.
Whose to say what someone needs? Do you need a BMW or a 3500 sq ft house? Or a 400 sq ft apartment and a carport for a Corolla be sufficient? It's not our place to say what people should do with their money or what debt they should put themselves in. If someone wants to spend XX% of their income on housing or cars or clothes that's their problem. The bank doesn't care because they have insurance and if you stop paying they will foreclose and resell. Especially in a hot market.
Now if a person asks my opinion it would depend on the financial situation.
People make choices to overspend and over buy. Can I go out and buy a new xx dollar diesel truck. Yeah. I can. Would I ? No I wouldn't. Because I just don't see the point in spending xx when my paid off diesel seems to work as well. If I need a new car I'll go buy one.
Hey I sometimes wonder how people can afford OC. And it's not hard to figure out. They are stretching to get a toehold. Like everyone does. But I'm not losing sleep over situations I can do absolutely nothing about. People will always justify needing something. I say that's their issue to deal with
Whose to say what someone needs? Do you need a BMW or a 3500 sq ft house? Or a 400 sq ft apartment and a carport for a Corolla be sufficient? It's not our place to say what people should do with their money or what debt they should put themselves in. If someone wants to spend XX% of their income on housing or cars or clothes that's their problem. The bank doesn't care because they have insurance and if you stop paying they will foreclose and resell. Especially in a hot market.
Now if a person asks my opinion it would depend on the financial situation.
People make choices to overspend and over buy. Can I go out and buy a new xx dollar diesel truck. Yeah. I can. Would I ? No I wouldn't. Because I just don't see the point in spending xx when my paid off diesel seems to work as well. If I need a new car I'll go buy one.
Hey I sometimes wonder how people can afford OC. And it's not hard to figure out. They are stretching to get a toehold. Like everyone does. But I'm not losing sleep over situations I can do absolutely nothing about. People will always justify needing something. I say that's their issue to deal with
I don't care what people do with their money. But I do care, when those people's collective stupid decisions starts affecting others and/or giving others terrible advice/diluting the truth. Telling someone making say 100K you can afford to buy a home in OC is telling a lie period. Also when enough people do as you said, that's how we got a recession. NOW I do care.
If the bank doesn't care (which they don't because they're in the business of profiting off mortgages as much as possible), then people will take out the largest loans possible to own their home. Exactly how the recession was caused... then people who could have been like me who are more fiscally conservative, could get laid off, etc.. Who will compensate me for someone else's mistakes along with countless others around the world who were affected? Will you pay for those fiscally conservative people's lost wages/benefits who did not stretch their budgets to the limits?
I don't care what people do with their money. But I do care, when those people's collective stupid decisions starts affecting others and/or giving others terrible advice/diluting the truth. Telling someone making say 100K you can afford to buy a home in OC is telling a lie period. Also when enough people do as you said, that's how we got a recession. NOW I do care.
If the bank doesn't care (which they don't because they're in the business of profiting off mortgages as much as possible), then people will take out the largest loans possible to own their home. Exactly how the recession was caused... then people who could have been like me who are more fiscally conservative, could get laid off, etc.. Who will compensate me for someone else's mistakes along with countless others around the world who were affected? Will you pay for those fiscally conservative people's lost wages/benefits who did not stretch their budgets to the limits?
Nobody.
You can't worry about what someone is doing. I worry about my finances and my family. That's it. I literally cannot control what some CEO CFO, PRESIDENT Senator or governor decides to do. I can't stop my neighbor from deckaring BK and walking from his house.
Or a market crash. I just worry about making my nest egg and surviving the next storm.
If I worried about every bad thing that may happen I'll have a anneurism or a heart attack. Not planning on having either one. Sure I shake my head at some decisions that are made. But I can't change the decisions.
If someone decides to tie themselves to a 750,000 dollar loan they aren't doing it on 3% down and 100k a year anyway. The math doesn't add up they aren't getting a loan. But we don't know if that guy sold a house and he's coming in with 350k in equity cash. And he makes 100k a year and his wife makes 75k.
Take my example. We saved for years to get the money to be comfortable in our purchase. We set a top limit and we did not bother with anything over that. I went to 650 and below I bought well below that. By about 150,000. So for me I jumped on it. Could we stretch and buy more? Sure. I got the money. And believe me my agent was more than happy to show me houses I simply felt were beyond what I wanted to pay.. I actually fired a few who did not understand or care that I was shopping a certain price range. I have no problem saying no and walking away.
Nobody is forcing anyone to buy a house.
Either way the housing issue in OC LA and IE is convoluted. The demand is do huge I don't think it's easily understood. Look into what it costs to build a NEW house. The breaking ground, permits, bring utilities. It runs 100k on each lot. Housing us just freaking expensive. It's expensive to buy the land, t develop it and to build on it. Then you gotta sell it.
Builders are simply not going to build cheap housing. Just not gonna happen no matter how much people and local governments scream for fair lower priced housing.
I've been in construction a long time. This demand is even more than the 98-08 demand. It's very hard to find qualified labor. That's just a small hurdle. There are many in building.
Right now imo we're building at about 50-60% of what we should be building just to meet current demand. And we're having a hard enough time doing that. We had 5 years of literally absolutely no building going on.
You can get cheap housing. Go out to Salton Sea, California City, Adelanto, you'll get cheaper housing. You're just not gonna get it right n beach towns or high demand areas.
I don't care what people do with their money. But I do care, when those people's collective stupid decisions starts affecting others and/or giving others terrible advice/diluting the truth. Telling someone making say 100K you can afford to buy a home in OC is telling a lie period. Also when enough people do as you said, that's how we got a recession. NOW I do care.
If the bank doesn't care (which they don't because they're in the business of profiting off mortgages as much as possible), then people will take out the largest loans possible to own their home. Exactly how the recession was caused... then people who could have been like me who are more fiscally conservative, could get laid off, etc.. Who will compensate me for someone else's mistakes along with countless others around the world who were affected? Will you pay for those fiscally conservative people's lost wages/benefits who did not stretch their budgets to the limits?
It's not a lie. You can buy a home. It may not be a $800K home, or a SFR but it's doable. Yet you choose to not admitting the sacrifices you need to make to have home ownership in OC because it does not fit into your narrative. You mocked every suggestions and real life examples some of us shared on how others have done it. You choose to ignore the individual responsibility of owning a home in OC.
There is no free lunch in life. If you're not willing to accept what you need to do to own a home in OC then perhaps move to "more affordable COL states" is a good alternative. There's something to say about enjoying your life and not worry about keeping up with the Joness.
BTW, your assumption of buying a home valued approximately 3X of your salary assumes an interest rate that's not realistic today. Today, you can afford to buy a $500K home with a $100K income and will still pay LESS monthly mortgage payment than rent.
Despite the fact that we own properties, I understand the frustration of not being able to live where you want or need to live. We'd love to live in South County OC or North County SD, but we can't afford it. We still live in the same house in Phoenix that we bought in the mid-'70s for what a midsized car costs today. We aren't slumlords, and we've raised the rent little or not at all over the past few years. It's why our tenants stay with us for years. (And yeah...we're liberals. Big
deal. That's got nothing to do with how we manage our properties.)
Most investors are like everyone else. Unlike what you see on HGTV, RE investment is hard work and money usually is earned over many years. Some people are fortunate to have inherited money and invested it in properties. Many investors got into the business when they were young and worked hard (as in 7 days/week) to put deals together. Many have lost money. Some have regained their footing; others haven't. Those properties that are being so highly criticized likely may be where people have stuck their retirement money instead of in the bank, market, or CDs. That's why it would be ridiculous to impose a higher tax on people with more properties: you could be taxing the retirement money for people of retirement age, many of whom are helping out younger members of their families (aka their grandchildren).
Investors with multiple mortgages carry higher risks than most people. If you trash my place or don't pay your rent, I'm still stuck paying the mortgage (again, out of my retirement money) AND the high taxes (esp. in OC) AND the insurance AND having to clean up your mess. Luckily, out of the 6 rentals we own, it's happened all of once-- and it was someone to whom we were kind and let him slide on paying his total security deposit and his rent. If we're going to take these risks, we shouldn't be penalized for it.
OC always is going to be expensive because it's a highly desirable area near the ocean.
You also make unwarranted and not very nice assumptions which damage your own credibility.
I can sell my current home and with available cash buy a home in SoCal in the area we have spoken of living (15 miles max to the Beach) without touching any investments, etc. We probably won't, as I hate the idea of giving more money to the State to be wasted. The actions of the CA Gov't in the last year have made it plain things will not get better.
LOL, even your sources shows the poor are leaving CA and the rich are moving to CA.
Yes more people move out than move in. My sources shows that. (The old, poor and grumpy are moving out). That's good for CA.
Not sure why that's such a big deal considering Kentucky has 58% moving out compared to 42% moving in.
Click on the map and view all the data for each states.
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Will you pay for those fiscally conservative people's lost wages/benefits who did not stretch their budgets to the limits?
