Double-ending Agent Ignoring offers-can we offer directly with seller's agent? (sales, real estate) - Orange County - California (CA) - City-Data Forum

KatyinOC · 07-09-2017, 09:43 AM

Hello again all,
So I will start with my question and then give the background:

1. Our first bid for a house was never signed or formally acknowledged by the seller's agent. Does this void the Residential Purchase agreement and allow us to put in another bid for the same house with a different agent?

Background: So after over year of looking, we found a house that we love. We had no prior contracts with any realtors, but in order to bid on the house, I picked one of the realtors we liked and asked her to put in a bid for us. We signed a Residential Purchase Agreement and put in a bid. The bid was much lower that the asking price, BUT, in this particular area (and with this particular seller's agent) it is not uncommon to see 100-200k price cuts between list and sale. So we based our bid on recent comps (which are few, but one was a nearly perfect comp).

The bid was completely ignored. No rejections, no counter offers. Just vague statements that were communicated via our realtor that the bid was too low. We really want the house, so we asked that our realtor push for a counter offer or a formal rejection. Nothing. So that Agreement was never signed by the seller's agent or the sellers. So there is no way to know if it was ever presented. Our agent suggested we put in a higher bid. I said we were happy to as long as we got a counter or a rejection. Now the house is accepting backups and we still have never received a formal acknowledgment of our bid.

I have recently discovered that the seller's agent prefers to double-end her deals (meaning act as both buyer's agent and seller's agent). In fact, an overwhelming number of her sales are like this. So I suspect she only wants to work with her own buyers.

Now let me be clear--I know that it is unprofessional for her to ignore our offer. I know it is unethical and illegal for her to not present a bid to a seller. I also know (as everyone keeps saying) that we will find a house when it is meant to be and that we shouldn't get into a bidding war. I understand. So please let's dispense with the platitudes. After a year of looking, I am at my wits end with the low inventory here and I would really prefer not to take another year.

So...Are we allowed to put in a bid directly with the seller's agent and ask her to represent us in the sale? Or are we still bound to that contract, even though it was never signed by the seller? Yes, I like the realtor that tried to put in our bid. But you know as well as I do that if she had another buyer out there, she'd have no problem with representing them as well.

Would really appreciate any and all thoughts as long as its not trying to convince me that "when it's meant to be it will happen". The way things are in SoCal right now, I just do not believe that anymore.

Electrician4you · 07-09-2017, 10:38 AM

Your bid can be completely ignored and there isn't much you can do. I guess if you specifically ask for a acknowledge or reject notice they have to give you one.

You would still be bound by the contract with your agent even if you didn't use him and went to the selling agent. Although I don't know why the hell you wanna do that. The agent is going to fleece you like a proverbial sheep.

I had dealt with a listing agent like that. She was the realtor, the contractor, the listing/selling agent, the broker and told my agent she will give her a finders fee to just hand me over. My response to that agents demands when I got the forwarded email from m my realtor was I have no interest in doing any business with such greedy person. Please forward this message in its entirety and withdraw any bid we made. I walked away from the house. She would of made plenty of money from the sale commission and overall without needing to double end it

I would NEVER enter into a double ended deal with the sellers agent. You have absolutely no protection. And there is absolutely NO WAY that a sellers agent can have a fiduciary duty to two opposing parties. Unless you know something I don't a agent CANT get both the highest price for the sellers and lowest price for the buyers.

It took me 2 years to find the great house. Lost it to another bidder. Two years later I found another. 4 years total to find the house I wanted.

The double endedcdeal agent is NOT working for you. He works for the seller. Walk away or have your agent resubmit a final higher bid. You're nibbling on the bait. She's just waiting to set the hook.

HB2HSV · 07-09-2017, 11:28 AM

It's simple. You offered an insulting bid. You DID get a response, a verbal one. That is how business are done. Now you're thinking double-cross your agent stabbing her in the back. What does that say about you?

If you were really interested in that house, you should've offered a price within negotiation range. The fact that they don't bother to counter indicates they were not going to waste time with your offer when there are plenty of others coming in. Now they're taking back-up offers, why didn't you offered something more reasonable in the first place?

KatyinOC · 07-09-2017, 12:30 PM

Let's not get so sensitive HB2HSV. First, how could you or anyone else know what is a "reasonable" offer in this real estate climate? And second, this whole idea of 'stabbing in the back' is ridiculous when you and I both know that if our agent had another buyer for this house, she wouldn't think twice about working with them. I found this house on Redfin and sent it to her. She didn't find us this house or bring it to us. I brought it to her.

I offered what I thought was reasonable for the area and what our realtor suggested. The particular area is very hard to gauge. The estimates and comps come in with huge ranges, sometimes up to 700k difference with the same square footage. So who do you trust for how much you should offer? Zillow? Redfin? Your agent? We based our bid on what our realtor told us to do. And the bid was in line with the sale price of a home that sold 1 month ago that we loved but didn't bid on because we thought it would sell for more than we could afford. It sold for far less. I'm not sure how we could have determined what was "within negotiation range". Please tell me, how does one determine that?

The advice we have heard is that buyers should not be so desperate and jump in and try to outbid everyone. Are you saying that we should have just thrown away that advice and tried to outbid everyone? No matter what the comps were or what our realtor was advising?

I really like the agent that we have been working with on this. But just because I like her doesn't mean that I should just give up an extra 100k to keep her as an agent when I could possibly go direct to the seller. If we all should be so loyal, why won't our agent offer to give up part of her commission to get us into the negotiations?

Realtors have no problem with using any number of dirty tricks to get buyers to bid higher. To try to be a "nice buyer" and honest and loyal is just plain stupid imo.

Electrician4you · 07-09-2017, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HB2HSV

It's simple. You offered an insulting bid. You DID get a response, a verbal one. That is how business are done. Now you're thinking double-cross your agent stabbing her in the back. What does that say about you?

If you were really interested in that house, you should've offered a price within negotiation range. The fact that they don't bother to counter indicates they were not going to waste time with your offer when there are plenty of others coming in. Now they're taking back-up offers, why didn't you offered something more reasonable in the first place?

i don't consider any bid insulting. People put way too much emotion into a house sale/purchase. I bid what I am willing to pay for a that house. If you don't like the bid that's fine.
If I was selling and didn't like the bid I would counter. I want everyone at the table last buyer standing wins.

Electrician4you · 07-09-2017, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by czarinalex

I'm confused by this statement. Do you think she won't represent you properly unless you are interested in her own listings? Why would you be giving up 100K by going direct to the seller?

You should always be represented by your own agent. If you are uncomfortable with this agent, then find another. You don't owe her anything and it doesn't sound like you have a contract with her.

Even if she uses a different agent she had representation for that house. The other agent may have a claim to all or part of the commission

czarinalex · 07-09-2017, 04:49 PM

you are correct... I mis-read the original post. It's the seller's agent who prefers to double-represent.

Electrician4you · 07-09-2017, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by czarinalex

you are correct... I mis-read the original post. It's the seller's agent who prefers to double-represent.

I think one of the most unethical things is to represent both buyer and seller. If I were a buyer or seller I wouldn't allow it.

OCerik · 07-10-2017, 04:31 AM

I'm a Realtor here in OC. Acouple things... The fact that your offer was ignored, is essentially a rejection. There doesn't need to be a formal rejection as all offers have an expiration date (default on the contract is 3 days after submission). Also, we are bound to show all offers to sellers. Sellers can be insulted very easily, and it is very common for them to not counter in this situation. It almost always has nothing to do with the agent wanting to double end the deal. If the Seller found out offers weren't being presented, or the Buyers Agent was suspicious and reported it, the Listing Agent would be in a world of hurt that's just not worth it to double end one deal.

Bypassing your current Realtor could be an interesting scenario if they were the procuring cause of you seeing the house. They could have a right to the commission, although it would depend on the agent if they'd go after that. I never would. Going around their back would be pretty shady though, and likely not change much.

If the house is in escrow now, you are definitely free to submit a backup offer. It would depend on escrow being cancelled, and that's not up to the seller for the most part.

I've seen this same scenario many times from both sides, buyer wants to start negotiating at a low price, then is surprised when the seller doesn't respond at all or counters at list price out of spite or something along those lines. I had a seller recently do exactly that because they didn't want to waste their time, especially when other offers are likely in the works.

expatCA · 07-10-2017, 08:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OCerik

I'm a Realtor here in OC. Acouple things... The fact that your offer was ignored, is essentially a rejection. There doesn't need to be a formal rejection as all offers have an expiration date (default on the contract is 3 days after submission). Also, we are bound to show all offers to sellers. Sellers can be insulted very easily, and it is very common for them to not counter in this situation. It almost always has nothing to do with the agent wanting to double end the deal. If the Seller found out offers weren't being presented, or the Buyers Agent was suspicious and reported it, the Listing Agent would be in a world of hurt that's just not worth it to double end one deal.

Bypassing your current Realtor could be an interesting scenario if they were the procuring cause of you seeing the house. They could have a right to the commission, although it would depend on the agent if they'd go after that. I never would. Going around their back would be pretty shady though, and likely not change much.

If the house is in escrow now, you are definitely free to submit a backup offer. It would depend on escrow being cancelled, and that's not up to the seller for the most part.

I've seen this same scenario many times from both sides, buyer wants to start negotiating at a low price, then is surprised when the seller doesn't respond at all or counters at list price out of spite or something along those lines. I had a seller recently do exactly that because they didn't want to waste their time, especially when other offers are likely in the works.

This.

People list at what they think, and their realtor thinks, is a fair price (maybe allowing for a little flexibility) and what the buyer thinks is fair is meaningless, unless that is close to the listing.

It is a sellers market. If someone thinks the price is way too high ... too bad as someone will buy it or ........ over time the owner and realtor will realize they were wring, and that is unlikely to be the case.