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Old 05-23-2018, 05:32 PM
 
18,172 posts, read 16,403,105 times
Reputation: 9328

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ryanst530 View Post
I can demand a lot of things too, it doesn't mean I will get them.

People are free to move anywhere in the country, but developers and city governments are not obligated to build homes for these people based on demand.

If OC residents really wanted growth, they would have elected pro-growth city governments decades ago and the housing shortage we have today wouldn't exist. OC would also look much different than it does today.
Yes, what residents want who own their homes, have paid taxes for all that has been built and makes an area desirable (Except weather), trumps what others want who cannot buy. That is the reality of life for centuries.
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Old 05-23-2018, 08:16 PM
 
Location: Huntington Beach, CA
86 posts, read 74,410 times
Reputation: 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryanst530 View Post
I think NIMBYs are well aware of the fact that their stance on development creates housing shortages and high prices. I think that's kind of the point... they are trying to *limit* growth, after all.

When we drill down to the root of this issue, the question becomes: What legal obligation does a city or town government have to develop new homes and businesses based on demand? The answer is there isn't one.
The city or town government doesn't develop new homes and businesses. People who are not part of the government do that or they would if the local governments didn't stop them from doing so. This is not a free market, it's government central planning.
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Old 05-23-2018, 08:19 PM
 
Location: Laguna Niguel, Orange County CA
9,807 posts, read 11,145,157 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iExtrapolate View Post
The city or town government doesn't develop new homes and businesses. People who are not part of the government do that or they would if the local governments didn't stop them from doing so. This is not a free market, it's government central planning.
I agree that it is not a free market for the reasons you state.
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Old 05-23-2018, 08:22 PM
 
Location: Huntington Beach, CA
86 posts, read 74,410 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaliRestoration View Post
Explain.
The cities are dictating to developers what they can and can't do on land that they own. This is called central planning. In a decentralized, capitalist economy, developers decide what they build on the land they own and so long as they follow the rules, no one stops them. Areas without centrally planned housing markets have greater elasticity between supply and demand which makes for a more efficient market.
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Old 05-24-2018, 08:34 AM
 
2,830 posts, read 2,504,023 times
Reputation: 2737
Quote:
Originally Posted by iExtrapolate View Post
The cities are dictating to developers what they can and can't do on land that they own. This is called central planning. In a decentralized, capitalist economy, developers decide what they build on the land they own and so long as they follow the rules, no one stops them. Areas without centrally planned housing markets have greater elasticity between supply and demand which makes for a more efficient market.
Every area has central planning to some extent. Some local governments are more restrictive than others.

Take a look at what happens with little/no central planning and leave everything up to the free market:

https://www.chron.com/news/houston-t...ws-9171688.php







Looks lovely, right?
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Old 05-24-2018, 08:47 AM
 
Location: Live:Downtown Phoenix, AZ/Work:Greater Los Angeles, CA
27,606 posts, read 14,610,214 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ryanst530 View Post
Every area has central planning to some extent. Some local governments are more restrictive than others.

Take a look at what happens with little/no central planning and leave everything up to the free market:

https://www.chron.com/news/houston-t...ws-9171688.php







Looks lovely, right?
If it makes housing in line with local wages (i.e. median income affording median house/apartment/condo), then so be it.

Overly restrictive NIMBY policies make it so you have to be in the top 1% to afford a run down condo
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Old 05-24-2018, 09:15 AM
 
Location: San Diego, CA
3,416 posts, read 2,459,101 times
Reputation: 6166
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryanst530 View Post
Every area has central planning to some extent. Some local governments are more restrictive than others.

Take a look at what happens with little/no central planning and leave everything up to the free market:

https://www.chron.com/news/houston-t...ws-9171688.php







Looks lovely, right?
Wow! There’s even better pictures in the link than the ones you posted. I like the quote that Houston looks like someone dropped the monopoly board and hastily put the hotel and houses on random properties.

I once was in Houston on a overnight layover going to Europe. The oppressive heat and humidity, in late September no less, was enough for me to never want to return.


Quote:
Originally Posted by FirebirdCamaro1220 View Post
Overly restrictive NIMBY policies make it so you have to be in the top 1% to afford a run down condo
I think that’s being a tiny bit overdramatic.
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Old 05-24-2018, 09:29 AM
 
18,172 posts, read 16,403,105 times
Reputation: 9328
Quote:
Originally Posted by FirebirdCamaro1220 View Post
If it makes housing in line with local wages (i.e. median income affording median house/apartment/condo), then so be it.

Overly restrictive NIMBY policies make it so you have to be in the top 1% to afford a run down condo
It will not make prices in line with local wages, ever. They can't build fast enough to accommodate all who want to live in an area and prices will consequently... go up. Scarcer land drives prices up and they are not making more land. You want affordable housing either move where you can ... afford it, or ... make more money. Housing has never been in line with local wages, meaning any job, at any time in the last 100 years at least. Thinking cramming more housing into an area will make it affordable is simply unrealistic thinking. NIMBY's many times are very smart to keep their area with a better QOL than building up and up and up and cramming more people onto the streets, roads and freeways not to mention the beaches, parks, etc., and causing a deterioration in QOL which is already happening in SoCal's popular areas.
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Old 05-24-2018, 10:11 AM
 
2,830 posts, read 2,504,023 times
Reputation: 2737
Quote:
Originally Posted by FirebirdCamaro1220 View Post
If it makes housing in line with local wages (i.e. median income affording median house/apartment/condo), then so be it.

Overly restrictive NIMBY policies make it so you have to be in the top 1% to afford a run down condo
Lol, I don't think many OC residents would take kindly to the area adopting Houston-like zoning and planning laws. Something tells me that wouldn't go over well.
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Old 05-24-2018, 10:24 AM
 
6,089 posts, read 4,989,092 times
Reputation: 5985
Quote:
Originally Posted by iExtrapolate View Post
The cities are dictating to developers what they can and can't do on land that they own. This is called central planning. In a decentralized, capitalist economy, developers decide what they build on the land they own and so long as they follow the rules, no one stops them. Areas without centrally planned housing markets have greater elasticity between supply and demand which makes for a more efficient market.
Can you show me communities in the U.S without central planning?
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