22 bucks for a chicken sandwich, fries, and a drink... (Oakland: houses, unemployment rate)

[2sleepy]

Originally Posted by Finper

of course... I cook for myself 90% of the time. I'll be eating home even more if all restaurants start charging 6.00 bucks for Orange Juice.
San San Fran they can't hire a wait staff because no one can afford to live there on a servers salary. They are starting to have customers order and get their own food. And still restaurants are closing there. If I remember right that's what happened at the hipster chicken place in Costa Mesa.
I don't know what the answer it but I expect to see more restaurants close the higher the min wage is.

Are you sure that Crack Shack adopted their counter service concept because of wage increases? As far as I know they've always had counter service only. But I guess we can settle that argument when their Las Vegas location opens, where minimum wage is $7.25 an hour huh?

And what's this about San Francisco restaurants not being able to hire wait staffs? I was there 3 weeks ago when we went to spend the weekend with my husband's son and his family. We ate out 3 times and I could swear that there were real live people serving us.

[TacoSoup]

Originally Posted by 2sleepy

Why aren't your servers sharing tips with the kitchen staff? It's now legal for a restaurant owner to do that and should solve your problem with the cooks pay.
https://outline.com/sTS6kj

You are correct that it’s now legal. It never was because the kitchen isn’t part of chain of service, just like a hostess, but we still did it anyways. Believe me it helps immensely, but it would be nice to give them more from the company. I was pointing out with my post that not everyone gets a raise at the lower pay levels when minimum wage goes up, and how in the restaurant industry it’s usually those who need it the most that don’t see the benefit.

[2sleepy]

Originally Posted by TacoSoup

You are correct that it’s now legal. It never was because the kitchen isn’t part of chain of service, just like a hostess, but we still did it anyways. Believe me it helps immensely, but it would be nice to give them more from the company. I was pointing out with my post that not everyone gets a raise at the lower pay levels when minimum wage goes up, and how in the restaurant industry it’s usually those who need it the most that don’t see the benefit.

But if you weren't giving these most deserving employees "more from the company" before the minimum wage increase it would appear that it wasn't the minimum wage increase that denied those employees a pay increase but something else, right?

It's kind of like a restaurant claiming they would like to use cloth napkins but they can't afford it because of minimum wage increases but the reality is they always used paper napkins from the first day they opened, it makes for a rather specious argument

[evening sun]

I check the menu on the window or online, before I go in & sit down. If it is overpriced, I just keep going. We mostly eat at home anyhow.

[TacoSoup]

Originally Posted by 2sleepy

But if you weren't giving these most deserving employees "more from the company" before the minimum wage increase it would appear that it wasn't the minimum wage increase that denied those employees a pay increase but something else, right?

It's kind of like a restaurant claiming they would like to use cloth napkins but they can't afford it because of minimum wage increases but the reality is they always used paper napkins from the first day they opened, it makes for a rather specious argument

If you actually read my earlier posts you’d see that they all got annual increases in pay and the delta between the two was substantially wider than it is now. Minimum wage in San Diego has gone up over 40% in the last five years. Not only that I have about 3x the hours in bartenders and servers than I do in cooks, so it makes it that much harder.

I appreciate you questioning my sincerity, or lack there of, but you’re wrong.

[TimTheEnchanter]

Originally Posted by 2sleepy

Well, they've already been in California for over 5 years. At the Roseville location on weekends it's not unusual to see people waiting outside for a table.

A long line doesn't mean mean the business is making money.

Originally Posted by TacoSoup

I’m right there with your friend. What also sucks is telling my cooks that you don’t get a raise, but that server making at least 2-3x what you do does. Too bad because I’d love to pay all my cooks more if I could. When minimum wage was at $8 just a few years back the delta in hourly was a lot wider between the two, with my cooks getting annual raises. Unfortunately I can’t do that like I used to because those making all the money are the ones getting the bump in hourly. People commenting here that everyone gets a raise when minimum wage goes up are delusional. Also it cost me more than $1 to pay that employee $1 who is gonna take home less than $1, so the economics doesn’t work that they’ll be able to afford the price changes.

I said it before and I’ll say it again, keep raising the minimum wage, I’ll gladly pay it, just give me a tipped wage. It’s sad that in the case of restaurant workers the rich get richer, and the poor get poorer, when there’s a minimum wage increase in a non tipped wage state like California.

I feel your pain.

Originally Posted by Finper

when Min wage gets to 15.00 I'm not tipping anymore. I'm actually close to doing that now. Tips are for employees that don't make enough money on the hourly wage. I'll feel bad but I can't afford the high priced food and then tipping 15 to 20% on top of that.

The minimum wage will have zero effect on what I tip someone. What will happen is that the subsequent rise in prices will cause me to eat out less. Or restaurants will find ways to cut out jobs to keep prices down and retain business. I will be spending less on tipping because I'll be eating in full serve restaurants less often.

Originally Posted by 2sleepy

Why aren't your servers sharing tips with the kitchen staff? It's now legal for a restaurant owner to do that and should solve your problem with the cooks pay.
https://outline.com/sTS6kj

It isn't as easy to implement as you think it is.

Originally Posted by 2sleepy

But if you weren't giving these most deserving employees "more from the company" before the minimum wage increase it would appear that it wasn't the minimum wage increase that denied those employees a pay increase but something else, right? It's kind of like a restaurant claiming they would like to use cloth napkins but they can't afford it because of minimum wage increases but the reality is they always used paper napkins from the first day they opened, it makes for a rather specious argument

Just a guess, you are not a restaurant owner?

[Finper]

Originally Posted by 2sleepy

Are you sure that Crack Shack adopted their counter service concept because of wage increases? As far as I know they've always had counter service only. But I guess we can settle that argument when their Las Vegas location opens, where minimum wage is $7.25 an hour huh?

And what's this about San Francisco restaurants not being able to hire wait staffs? I was there 3 weeks ago when we went to spend the weekend with my husband's son and his family. We ate out 3 times and I could swear that there were real live people serving us.

Decades-low unemployment across the Bay Area — 4 percent in the East Bay and 3.5 percent in the South Bay — means that restaurant workers can enter other industries or move to other restaurants. Bednarz said candidates often have not showed up for job interviews.
And the high cost of living here is driving many workers in restaurants and retail (typically lower-wage positions) to other cities and states.

AlaMar, a restaurant that opened on Oakland’s Grand Avenue in 2014, closed temporarily at the end of December to retool its concept from a full-service restaurant with servers tending to tables, to a quick-service model where people order at the counter. It’s a less labor-intensive model, which owners Nelson and May German are using to combat the challenges of hiring and paying staff.


the above is from a article in the Mercury News

[2sleepy]

Originally Posted by TimTheEnchanter

A long line doesn't mean mean the business is making money.

I feel your pain.

The minimum wage will have zero effect on what I tip someone. What will happen is that the subsequent rise in prices will cause me to eat out less. Or restaurants will find ways to cut out jobs to keep prices down and retain business. I will be spending less on tipping because I'll be eating in full serve restaurants less often.

It isn't as easy to implement as you think it is.

Just a guess, you are not a restaurant owner?

Am I a restaurant owner? No, are you? Since when do you have to own a rest And get real, a business does not have long lines consistently for over 5 years and lose money. If they were losing money they would be gone by now. Notice the menu date was from 2017? Well, those prices are still in effect today.

[TimTheEnchanter]

Originally Posted by 2sleepy

Am I a restaurant owner? No, are you? Since when do you have to own a rest And get real, a business does not have long lines consistently for over 5 years and lose money. If they were losing money they would be gone by now. Notice the menu date was from 2017? Well, those prices are still in effect today.

A lot of that is very incoherent. Thank the Lord, no I do not own a restaurant in CA. But as I said in an earlier post I am very good friends with a restaurant owner and we speak once or twice a week, mostly about his restaurants and the issues he faces. Personnel and labor costs are 80% of his issues.
Somehow you keep ignoring that what it cost to run a restaurant in 2018 (2019) isn't the same as it was 5 years ago. In 2013 the CA minimum wage was $8, then it jumped to $10 overnight, now it is $12 an hour, in three years it goes to $15. The average restaurant runs on about a 5% profit margin; if labor increases almost 100% in 9 nine years, something has to give. And not just the wage increases, but all the taxes to the government go up as well, Social Security, Medicare, FUTA, CA SUTA and CA ETT. It's a nightmare. I am amazed anyone wants to open a new business in CA these days.

[2sleepy]

Originally Posted by TimTheEnchanter

A lot of that is very incoherent. Thank the Lord, no I do not own a restaurant in CA. But as I said in an earlier post I am very good friends with a restaurant owner and we speak once or twice a week, mostly about his restaurants and the issues he faces. Personnel and labor costs are 80% of his issues.
Somehow you keep ignoring that what it cost to run a restaurant in 2018 (2019) isn't the same as it was 5 years ago. In 2013 the CA minimum wage was $8, then it jumped to $10 overnight, now it is $12 an hour, in three years it goes to $15. The average restaurant runs on about a 5% profit margin; if labor increases almost 100% in 9 nine years, something has to give. And not just the wage increases, but all the taxes to the government go up as well, Social Security, Medicare, FUTA, CA SUTA and CA ETT. It's a nightmare. I am amazed anyone wants to open a new business in CA these days.

lol so you are an expert because you have a friend who owns a restaurant? And I am incoherent? wow...just wow