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Old 03-28-2020, 09:21 AM
 
4,151 posts, read 1,610,364 times
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IF the toll roads were all free one day (wild, wacky hypothetical, but bear with me...)

By HOW much would traffic be reduced?

I have a hunch that if the 73 were entirely free, it would basically solve most of the 405 congestion. I also have a hunch that making the 241 free would solve I-5 and SR 55 congestion.

Many, many commuters like me would avoid the 241 and take the I-5 instead simply to avoid the tolls, even when the 241 would have saved me 10 minutes each way.
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Old 03-28-2020, 06:24 PM
 
Location: So Ca
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It might work. (I've never understood the reason that Orange County has so many toll roads.)

https://thetollroads.com/about/background
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Old 03-28-2020, 07:39 PM
 
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There's an onramp right around the corner from us, but I often don't take it because the tolls have become astronomical. (The distance from my onramp, Rancho Santa Margarita Pkwy, to the very next exit, Los Alisos, is about 3 miles, and the toll is $1.64. Originally it was 25 cents).

It would be great for me if they were free, but it's not going to happen any time soon. The debt for constructing the toll roads won't be paid off until 2040 (I looked it up). Who knows what life will be like here in twenty years; I'm having a hard time at the moment imagining life a month from now.
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Old 03-29-2020, 09:44 AM
 
585 posts, read 356,153 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CA4Now View Post
It might work. (I've never understood the reason that Orange County has so many toll roads.)

https://thetollroads.com/about/background
OC has so many toll roads (Fast Trak) because when OC was originally developing post-war, the state built the 5, 55, 405, etc. (would'a been nice if they'd at least continued the 57 south to the 405 instead of stopping at the 5).

As OC continued to develop and expand, the previously planned and built freeways were inadequate to handle the previously unforeseen growth. The need for more freeways developed, however the will (via ballot) or the ability ($) of the State to build them did not materialize. Private parties stepped in and negotiated with government to build them, to take on the risk and cost in return for a percentage going back to the state of future use.

Hence, the toll roads are privately owned, they are not part of the public infrastructure. While it is fun to speculate about how a "fee free" day would be, it is unlikely that a privately owned, for-profit on-going concern will give up a return in order to remove the tolls from users.
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Old 03-31-2020, 11:39 PM
 
Location: NNV
2,924 posts, read 1,947,199 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrJester View Post
IF the toll roads were all free one day (wild, wacky hypothetical, but bear with me...)

By HOW much would traffic be reduced?

I have a hunch that if the 73 were entirely free, it would basically solve most of the 405 congestion. I also have a hunch that making the 241 free would solve I-5 and SR 55 congestion.

Many, many commuters like me would avoid the 241 and take the I-5 instead simply to avoid the tolls, even when the 241 would have saved me 10 minutes each way.
It wouldn't. You'll just create different choke points on the freeways.
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Old 04-01-2020, 07:44 AM
 
4,151 posts, read 1,610,364 times
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Originally Posted by Vic Romano View Post
It wouldn't. You'll just create different choke points on the freeways.
I can see that happening to an extent. You'd create even more of a chokepoint at the 261 and 91, potentially.

But if SR 73 was made free on its entire length, you'd be able to divert traffic away from the El Toro Y. You'd be able to more evenly distribute traffic between the El Toro Y and the 73/I-5 junction. The SR 73/I-5 junction is hardly ever congested. It certainly does have the extra capacity to handle some overflow from the El Toro Y--and still be quite free-flowing. The SR 73 runs far below capacity, as do several other stretches of the toll roads. A traffic jam only occurs when he road is running above capacity.

EVEN IF the SR 73 hypothetically became as congested as the I-405 is now, it would STILL improve travel times between Costa Mesa and Aliso Viejo and points south. The SR-73 is simply more direct, travels a shorter distance than the I-405 and I-5 do.

I pose this hypothetical of making all the toll roads free because yes, it's wild and wacky, but in reality, it's not any wilder or wackier than building light rail across Orange County. The question is: wouldn't you rather have free toll roads than a light rail system built across sprawling Orange County? More people will use the free toll roads than use a light rail system. It will do more to combat congestion. And at a far cheaper price, too.
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Old 04-01-2020, 03:00 PM
 
Location: Corona del Mar & Coronado, CA
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The 73 would grind to a halt faster than the 405 because of the topography. The 73 couldn't easily handle higher volume. It is pretty busy now during commuter hours.
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Old 04-01-2020, 09:13 PM
 
4,151 posts, read 1,610,364 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TimTheEnchanter View Post
The 73 would grind to a halt faster than the 405 because of the topography. The 73 couldn't easily handle higher volume. It is pretty busy now during commuter hours.
Is it ever congested like the 405 is? I think it's "busy" as in heavy but free-flowing traffic.
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