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Old 08-06-2020, 11:28 PM
 
Location: Corona del Mar & Coronado, CA
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Originally Posted by longviewJoe View Post
One direction California has gone the last 40 years is that real estate has appreciated faster than anywhere in the country. Another direction California has gone is continually tried new things that are often followed by other states several years later.
Why will CA be losing a seat in Congress at the next apportionment?

And if you don't think the quality of life in CA has diminished for most people over the last 40 years, I'd suggest you haven't lived in CA, especially So Cal for 40 years.
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Old 08-06-2020, 11:48 PM
DKM
 
Location: Thousand Oaks, CA
5,492 posts, read 1,987,123 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TimTheEnchanter View Post
And if you don't think the quality of life in CA has diminished for most people over the last 40 years, I'd suggest you haven't lived in CA, especially So Cal for 40 years.
What was so better in the early 80s compared to now? Other than the boring "less people" response...
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Old 08-07-2020, 10:45 AM
 
3,240 posts, read 4,568,046 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DKM View Post
What was so better in the early 80s compared to now? Other than the boring "less people" response...
I think housing costs relative to income were less out of whack in California 40 years ago. My parents were both teachers and we were able to buy a nice house and live a solid middle class lifestyle. I don't think someone in that situation would be able to do the same today, in most parts of California.
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Old 08-07-2020, 12:16 PM
 
807 posts, read 272,273 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roadwarrior101 View Post
I think housing costs relative to income were less out of whack in California 40 years ago. My parents were both teachers and we were able to buy a nice house and live a solid middle class lifestyle. I don't think someone in that situation would be able to do the same today, in most parts of California.
That doesn't mean quality of life is worse. Quality of Life (QOL) is not the same as Cost of Living (COL). Please don't confuse the two. My quality of life in California is high. The fact that home prices have increased means that millions of people have increased equity in their homes which is a good thing to all the owners.

The only things that are worse in 2020 (barring covid/political nonsense) compared to 1980 is traffic/overpopulation. Better restaurants, better shopping, better air quality, less crime, less gangs, more gentrified areas, better colleges/higher education rankings (USC in the 80s was a complete joke), more diverse job opportunities, better funded and more medical centers, better mass transit options (no light rail existed in 1980).

So yeah I'll follow up on DKM's question. What QOL measures are worse about Socal in 2020 than in 1980 other than population growth/traffic?
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Old 08-07-2020, 01:36 PM
 
870 posts, read 318,864 times
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Originally Posted by bad debt View Post
That doesn't mean quality of life is worse. Quality of Life (QOL) is not the same as Cost of Living (COL). Please don't confuse the two. My quality of life in California is high. The fact that home prices have increased means that millions of people have increased equity in their homes which is a good thing to all the owners.

The only things that are worse in 2020 (barring covid/political nonsense) compared to 1980 is traffic/overpopulation. Better restaurants, better shopping, better air quality, less crime, less gangs, more gentrified areas, better colleges/higher education rankings (USC in the 80s was a complete joke), more diverse job opportunities, better funded and more medical centers, better mass transit options (no light rail existed in 1980).

So yeah I'll follow up on DKM's question. What QOL measures are worse about Socal in 2020 than in 1980 other than population growth/traffic?
COL due to taxes and fees, HOA's, Mello Roos, Gas prices and more going wayyyy up. If you have enough money, fine if you don't not so good and ... more people have less money now compared to the COL in CA now than in the past. It isn't just population growth though that has accelerated problems as well. Not much can be done about that as CA is a popular designation.
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Old 08-07-2020, 01:51 PM
 
807 posts, read 272,273 times
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Originally Posted by Racer46 View Post
COL due to taxes and fees, HOA's, Mello Roos, Gas prices and more going wayyyy up. If you have enough money, fine if you don't not so good and ... more people have less money now compared to the COL in CA now than in the past. It isn't just population growth though that has accelerated problems as well. Not much can be done about that as CA is a popular designation.
Once again the question was not about Cost Of Living. The question was Quality Of Life. Do you understand these are two different things?
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Old 08-07-2020, 02:19 PM
 
3,240 posts, read 4,568,046 times
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Originally Posted by bad debt View Post
Once again the question was not about Cost Of Living. The question was Quality Of Life. Do you understand these are two different things?
Cost of living often drives quality of life. They are interrelated.

Your income is at a set level and you can afford to buy certain things. When the COL is higher, your house may need to be smaller, in a worse neighborhood or a further commute distance. You may not be able to afford a nice car, family vacations or other nice to have items. You may not be able to save as much for retirement and have to work longer. You may have challenges paying medical bills and may even have to worry about how you'll put food on the table, after accounting for rent, utilities and other non-negotiable items.

I get that YOU don't have to worry about this and you should feel fortunate. Unfortunately, not everyone is in the same situation as you. This is exasperated in high COL areas like California. It has also only gotten worse here since COVID as many expenses are fixed while income sources have dried up (with high unemployment rates).
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Old 08-07-2020, 03:42 PM
 
807 posts, read 272,273 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roadwarrior101 View Post
Cost of living often drives quality of life. They are interrelated.

Your income is at a set level and you can afford to buy certain things. When the COL is higher, your house may need to be smaller, in a worse neighborhood or a further commute distance. You may not be able to afford a nice car, family vacations or other nice to have items. You may not be able to save as much for retirement and have to work longer. You may have challenges paying medical bills and may even have to worry about how you'll put food on the table, after accounting for rent, utilities and other non-negotiable items.

I get that YOU don't have to worry about this and you should feel fortunate. Unfortunately, not everyone is in the same situation as you. This is exasperated in high COL areas like California. It has also only gotten worse here since COVID as many expenses are fixed while income sources have dried up (with high unemployment rates).
But that doesn't mean that the QOL has decreased in an area. The luxury homes are still there, the high end restaurants, entertainment venues, the hospitals, the beaches, the parks, the natural areas, etc etc. are all still in Socal. In fact there are MORE now than in the 80's. So the QOL has not decreased. Period.

Premium areas offer high QOL at a high COL. That's demonstrably true. You have not been able to disprove that. I'm sorry, but clearly you don't understand what QOL means and are conflating two different concepts. What you seem to be arguing for is finding an area with a hgih QOL with a low COL. Fine have at it, but that wasn't the initial statement posited by DKM and it doesn't mean that the QOL in socal has decreased in 40 years. In fact it's completely spurious and you're just introducing another variable.

Maybe you should read this:

https://www.investopedia.com/article...re%20happiness.

The two terms are often confused because there may be some perceived overlap in how they are defined. But knowing the different nuances of each can affect how you evaluate a country where you might be looking to invest some money.

Standard of living [cost of living] is a tangible, quantifiable term that refers to factors available to a certain socioeconomic class or geographic area.
Quality of life is a subjective term that can measure happiness.
Both can be flawed indicators because the factors can vary between people in the same geographic area or socioeconomic class.
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Old 08-07-2020, 05:35 PM
 
870 posts, read 318,864 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bad debt View Post
Once again the question was not about Cost Of Living. The question was Quality Of Life. Do you understand these are two different things?
They are directly related. QOL is not good in CA if you are poor or barely getting by.


Then define QOL? It varies person by person.


I love the beach and growing up in So California I went constantly with no issues. Now the crowding and lack of parking is frustrating. So having the same beaches does not mean they are as enjoyable or accessible. This is in all parts of the area. Plus as a kid parking in most areas was ... free. Not anymore. If you have a lot of money you can enjoy all that CA has to offer, if you don't, then you don't get to enjoy it all.
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Old 08-07-2020, 05:58 PM
 
807 posts, read 272,273 times
Reputation: 971
Quote:
Originally Posted by Racer46 View Post
They are directly related. QOL is not good in CA if you are poor or barely getting by.


Then define QOL? It varies person by person.


I love the beach and growing up in So California I went constantly with no issues. Now the crowding and lack of parking is frustrating. So having the same beaches does not mean they are as enjoyable or accessible. This is in all parts of the area. Plus as a kid parking in most areas was ... free. Not anymore. If you have a lot of money you can enjoy all that CA has to offer, if you don't, then you don't get to enjoy it all.
Exactly. Quality of life is subjective. But all the things are still here and actually it's demonstrably better now in many aspects as I have already pointed out.
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