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Old 06-24-2020, 11:30 AM
 
4,385 posts, read 1,615,185 times
Reputation: 3875

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Electrician4you View Post
I can only hope cops all over the USA go and take off 6 consecutive weeks of vacation or go on strike.

You guys would all shut up about how cops are paid too much.

I’m betting a good portion of members on here couldn’t get past the application process.

65k a year? To put up with what cops put up on a daily basis? No thanks
How stressful the job is does not justify the bottomless pit that their salaries and benefits are, it's out of sync proportionally. Fact is politicians and LE unions are doing each other favors at the expense of everyone else. Just pointing out the obvious.
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Old 06-24-2020, 04:04 PM
 
Location: Riverside Ca
22,165 posts, read 25,371,892 times
Reputation: 35089
Quote:
Originally Posted by max210 View Post
How stressful the job is does not justify the bottomless pit that their salaries and benefits are, it's out of sync proportionally. Fact is politicians and LE unions are doing each other favors at the expense of everyone else. Just pointing out the obvious.
Well until you become a cop and deal with that job you are about as clueless as can be. First of all NOT every cop makes 100,000 dollars a year. And when you get down to it it’s a gross amount. You start taking taxes taxes, dues, insurance etc you’re bringing home 75k. That’s 1450 bucks a week. 3k house payment $500 car payment food utilities etc. you’re really not out there killing it. Now add two cars a few kids, some sports and entertainment you’re pretty much out of money.

No cop has ever gotten rich by being a cop. But hey go ahead and keep thinking cops are raking it in....you do know most cops have college degrees right? So why should they have to take some 50/60k a year job if they don’t need to.

I love how people arbitrarily think that some profession is overpaid.....because they feel it is. You’re so clueless it’s actually laughable. You’re probably the first person to dial 911 and demand PD presence if there is a incident.
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Old 06-24-2020, 04:43 PM
 
Location: Cypress, CA
801 posts, read 1,489,270 times
Reputation: 863
I don't deny the important of the police. Nurses, teachers, doctors, engineers, grocery store workers and your accountants are also important. Can we live without engineers or doctors?

I have a problem when police union money completely controls the city council and politicians. It is a problem when politicians are not performing their duty to be good stewards of taxpayer money but rather focus solely on their election campaigns. Through the trading of political favors and excessive pay raises it is very possible that people can be way overpaid. Of course, not all cops making more than $100k but I am talking about Santa Ana cops and I provided you the link to see their salaries. Sales tax rate can be 5% or 6% instead of over 9% if the taxpayers are informed.

I am not clueless. I think you may have family members that are cops so you are biased. I have friends that are cops in other cities and I know what they do. 99.99% of the time they are not in any danger. The guy who trims the trees in my neighborhood has a lot more risks than your average cop.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Electrician4you View Post
Well until you become a cop and deal with that job you are about as clueless as can be. First of all NOT every cop makes 100,000 dollars a year. And when you get down to it it’s a gross amount. You start taking taxes taxes, dues, insurance etc you’re bringing home 75k. That’s 1450 bucks a week. 3k house payment $500 car payment food utilities etc. you’re really not out there killing it. Now add two cars a few kids, some sports and entertainment you’re pretty much out of money.

No cop has ever gotten rich by being a cop. But hey go ahead and keep thinking cops are raking it in....you do know most cops have college degrees right? So why should they have to take some 50/60k a year job if they don’t need to.

I love how people arbitrarily think that some profession is overpaid.....because they feel it is. You’re so clueless it’s actually laughable. You’re probably the first person to dial 911 and demand PD presence if there is a incident.
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Old 06-25-2020, 07:46 AM
 
585 posts, read 355,906 times
Reputation: 1576
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmybirdie View Post
I have friends that are cops in other cities and I know what they do. 99.99% of the time they are not in any danger. The guy who trims the trees in my neighborhood has a lot more risks than your average cop.
Ahhh, the classic, "I watched them on TV so I can do their job."

Regardless even if you had close family members that were in law enforcement, you do NOT know how to do that job or what it is like until YOUR butt is the one in the seat and YOU are responding to the calls and YOU have the primary responsibility (and risk) to handle them.

Very different than what you think your friends are doing, or what you watch on the idiot box.
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Old 06-25-2020, 08:21 AM
 
Location: Sacramento CA
1,536 posts, read 456,076 times
Reputation: 3470
Eye opening, that is for sure.

Here is the link to "Transparent California" that shows salaries for Santa Anna. Some big numbers in there.


https://transparentcalifornia.com/sa...019/santa-ana/


Here is base salary for various police ranks.


$243,400 -- Chief of Police.(only 1 of these in Santa Anna PD)

$184,600 to $186,900 -- Captain (3 of these in Santa Anna PD)

$140,500 to $164,200 -- Lieutenant (16 of these)

$124,000 to $129,000 -- Sargeant (47 of these)

$104,500 -- Police Officer (almost 400 of these)




Here it Total pay, which is Base pay + OT + Other pay, without pension or benefits.


$301,600 -- Chief of Police

$263,800 to $288,700 -- Captain

$208,000 to $311,400 -- Lieutenant

$200,000 to $293,400 -- Sargeant

$190,000 to $206,000 -- Police Officer


Lots of OT, as you would expect.

I have no clue what "Other pay" is. Health insurance? Uniform allowance? City contribution to pensions? Liability costs? Mental health issues and counseling?

I have not clue. I can't find what "Other pay" entails.





.

Last edited by Igor Blevin; 06-25-2020 at 08:30 AM..
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Old 06-25-2020, 08:29 AM
 
Location: Sacramento CA
1,536 posts, read 456,076 times
Reputation: 3470
If you think the cops numbers look huge, you should look at the salaries for University of California staff. There are so many millionaires, I can't even find your garden variety English Lit Professor.

If anybody can make heads or tails of the UC portion of Transparent Calfornia, I would love to know what your garden variety classroom professor takes down each year in base pay vs. total pay. The first 20 pages are indecipherable. I quit trying to figure out the code. I'm lost.
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Old 06-25-2020, 09:14 AM
 
Location: On the water.
17,585 posts, read 10,038,647 times
Reputation: 14739
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmybirdie View Post
I am not clueless. I think you may have family members that are cops so you are biased. I have friends that are cops in other cities and I know what they do. 99.99% of the time they are not in any danger. The guy who trims the trees in my neighborhood has a lot more risks than your average cop.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElDiabloJoe View Post
Ahhh, the classic, "I watched them on TV so I can do their job."

Regardless even if you had close family members that were in law enforcement, you do NOT know how to do that job or what it is like until YOUR butt is the one in the seat and YOU are responding to the calls and YOU have the primary responsibility (and risk) to handle them.

Very different than what you think your friends are doing, or what you watch on the idiot box.
Lol. I would point out that: the reason cops have lower job injury and death rates than certain other professions goes back to the earlier conversation about training. It is the same for firefighting and military.

The training, training, training ... practice, practice, practice ... conditioning, conditioning, conditioning - is extreme, intense, exhausting, and endless. THAT is why the fatalities and injuries are lower than “tree-trimming”. If a first responder had no more training and psychological fitness than a tree-trimmer ...

This whole conversation is fair to consider pay issues ... it is absurd to consider police / first responder profiles as equivalent to common civilian professions.
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Old 06-25-2020, 11:19 AM
 
Location: Riverside Ca
22,165 posts, read 25,371,892 times
Reputation: 35089
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmybirdie View Post
I don't deny the important of the police. Nurses, teachers, doctors, engineers, grocery store workers and your accountants are also important. Can we live without engineers or doctors?

I have a problem when police union money completely controls the city council and politicians. It is a problem when politicians are not performing their duty to be good stewards of taxpayer money but rather focus solely on their election campaigns. Through the trading of political favors and excessive pay raises it is very possible that people can be way overpaid. Of course, not all cops making more than $100k but I am talking about Santa Ana cops and I provided you the link to see their salaries. Sales tax rate can be 5% or 6% instead of over 9% if the taxpayers are informed.

I am not clueless. I think you may have family members that are cops so you are biased. I have friends that are cops in other cities and I know what they do. 99.99% of the time they are not in any danger. The guy who trims the trees in my neighborhood has a lot more risks than your average cop.
I have no family members in law enforcement. I do have a few friends who are military fire fighters and cops. This does not make me biased. I know how they live and it’s not extravagant. They are living a typical life. House car kid bills.

You seem to have the impression that 100-150,000 dollars a year is extravagant for a person with a degree, constant training and not only the mental ability to know what to do in a circumstance but that can also be killed at any given time. 99.9% of the time. It’s that .09% of the time when they can catch any communicable disease AIDS, COVID, HIV, pathogens, they get to deal with abused kids, raped women, destroyed families because daddy got drug and killed mommy in a fit of alcoholic or drug induced rage, or deal with the crazy neighbor, the assaulted random person on the street, or get to give parents the abd news their kid was killed for doing something g stupid or someone doing something to them, not to mention they usually get to deal with people that society knows are there but doesn’t really wanna deal with. Killers rapists, cannibalism, racism, human trafficking for sex and labor and sometimes their life is ended because some criminal wanted to get away

Yeah all that......that’s a lot like trimming trees. The guy who trims trees in your neighborhood you mentioned........he’s usually good has been trained and he’s good he’s making more than the cops are making. And he’s still in less danger than a cop is. Unless he does some idiotic thing he’s gonna go home. And not many people hate a tree trimmer.

Last tree guy I hired charged me 3k for a days worth of work.
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Old 06-25-2020, 12:56 PM
 
Location: Corona del Mar & Coronado, CA
3,041 posts, read 1,780,036 times
Reputation: 3769
Quote:
Originally Posted by CLT4 View Post
They do it in many areas of the country for about $45,000 a year and recruit cops still. So Cal cost of living isn't 5 times the cost of other metros.
The base salary of police officers in Santa Ana isn't out of line with other police departments in Orange County. I think $85k is an appropriate starting base for a bi-lingual, 4 year college graduate police officer.

I DON'T get what "Other Pay" is. It isn't OT, that is detailed too. I suppose there could be extra pay on certain shifts or special details (narcotics, SWAT, etc) but DOUBLE the base pay.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmybirdie View Post
I live in Cypress, a city with much higher median income at $95k and cops here make good salaries but much less than Santa Ana cops.
Not really. A starting, full time trained police officer starts at $79k and goes up to over $100k. That is without OT, benefits or special pay for extra duties and qualifications.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmybirdie View Post
The main problem is that the voters are very ill informed. Why would the poor in CA voted for the gas tax is one example. Their fear of Trump, and I don't blame them, drove them to the Democratic party.
Say what? Trump? CA has been voting exclusively for Democrats since Reagan let over 3 million illegals become legal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CLT4 View Post
Which is why I pointed out areas like Washington DC and Boston PD which are more dangerous than Santa Ana (challenging work environment), the primary police department of a large global city with visitors from all over the world and terrorist targets, AND are in HIGH cost of living sectors of the country that are just as comparable as Southern California are still able to recruit talent at $65,00 per year. Supply and demand should determine salaries. Not unions. Why are Santa Ana PD worth 2 - 5 times as much as New York City, Washington DC, Boston, et.?
Boston and WDC police officers can buy a nice home for $300 $500k that is less than 30 minutes from work. A Santa Ana PD officer cannot. Santa Ana base pay is in line with other OC cities.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pharmboyinSD View Post
Wow, I wish teachers would make a similar salary.
Teachers in Santa Ana start at $59k. They can be at $90k by year 10 if they have a Masters. They can reach $115k and that is without add-ons like department chair, master teacher, etc.

There is a Middle School teacher in Santa Ana with a base salary of $186k.

https://transparentcalifornia.com/sa...a-ana-unified/

Quote:
Originally Posted by max210 View Post
How stressful the job is does not justify the bottomless pit that their salaries and benefits are, it's out of sync proportionally. Fact is politicians and LE unions are doing each other favors at the expense of everyone else. Just pointing out the obvious.
This is true. The symbiotic relations between public employee unions, union contributions to elected officials, elected officials setting salaries and benefits of public employee unions has to end somehow.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Electrician4you View Post
First of all NOT every cop makes 100,000 dollars a year.
No, but in OC pretty close. If you stay on the job 5 years or so and get some overtime, you will be over $100k

Quote:
Originally Posted by Electrician4you View Post
No cop has ever gotten rich by being a cop.
Not rich, but in retirement (and at a much earlier age) it is a much more comfortable retirement than your average working schlump.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmybirdie View Post
I have friends that are cops in other cities and I know what they do. 99.99% of the time they are not in any danger. The guy who trims the trees in my neighborhood has a lot more risks than your average cop.
You have that wrong. 99% of the time the police officer's calls turn out to NOT be dangerous.The danger is ALWAYS there as a 100% possibility. Traffic stops turn into deadly encounters, neighbor disputes turn into deadly encounters.

Tree trimmers only face deadly encounters through their own, negligent behaviors.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Igor Blevin View Post
Eye opening, that is for sure.

Here is the link to "Transparent California" that shows salaries for Santa Anna. Some big numbers in there.

https://transparentcalifornia.com/sa...019/santa-ana/

Here is base salary for various police ranks.

$243,400 -- Chief of Police.(only 1 of these in Santa Anna PD)
$184,600 to $186,900 -- Captain (3 of these in Santa Anna PD)
$140,500 to $164,200 -- Lieutenant (16 of these)
$124,000 to $129,000 -- Sargeant (47 of these)
$104,500 -- Police Officer (almost 400 of these)

I have no clue what "Other pay" is. Health insurance? Uniform allowance? City contribution to pensions? Liability costs? Mental health issues and counseling?

I have not clue. I can't find what "Other pay" entails.
I have no problem with the base pays. I have no idea what "Other pay" is. It isn't Health insurance, uniform allowance, city contribution to pensions, mental health counseling or any of that, since those are all covered in different categories already. Maybe it is a union negotiated housing allowance or something similar, but some individuals are getting huge amounts, more than their salary, in this category.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Igor Blevin View Post
If you think the cops numbers look huge, you should look at the salaries for University of California staff. There are so many millionaires, I can't even find your garden variety English Lit Professor.
A lot of the "millionaire" professors look like they are MDs and the university is compensating them for that.

Here is the UC Salary Schedule.

https://apo.ucsc.edu/docs/scales-crnt.pdf

It depends on the department and campus, but it looks like a full, tenured professor can start at around $100k to $150k salary alone and go up from there. Some of the highest paid full professors who are not doctors are in Business, Finance & Economics, which makes sense, since they need high pay and benefits to attract them.

What doesn't make sense is the pension contribution. They are far, far above the private sector. If the UC System is going to base salaries on the private sector, the pension benefits should line up too.
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Old 06-25-2020, 01:46 PM
 
Location: Riverside Ca
22,165 posts, read 25,371,892 times
Reputation: 35089
Quote:
Originally Posted by TimTheEnchanter View Post

No, but in OC pretty close. If you stay on the job 5 years or so and get some overtime, you will be over $100k


Not rich, but in retirement (and at a much earlier age) it is a much more comfortable retirement than your average working schlump.


You have that wrong. 99% of the time the police officer's calls turn out to NOT be dangerous.The danger is ALWAYS there as a 100% possibility. Traffic stops turn into deadly encounters, neighbor disputes turn into deadly encounters.

Tree trimmers only face deadly encounters through their own, negligent behaviors.


I have no problem with the base pays. I have no idea what "Other pay" is. It isn't Health insurance, uniform allowance, city contribution to pensions, mental health counseling or any of that, since those are all covered in different categories already. Maybe it is a union negotiated housing allowance or something similar, but some individuals are getting huge amounts, more than their salary, in this category.


It depends on the department and campus, but it looks like a full, tenured professor can start at around $100k to $150k salary alone and go up from there. Some of the highest paid full professors who are not doctors are in Business, Finance & Economics, which makes sense, since they need high pay and benefits to attract them.

What doesn't make sense is the pension contribution. They are far, far above the private sector. If the UC System is going to base salaries on the private sector, the pension benefits should line up too.
But initially you’re not starting at 100k a year. You work your way up like anywhere else. If you work for someone and say you get paid x amount. A year later you complete some training or school where you have a certification or maybe multiple certifications. You’re gonna demand more money. I know I would


Cops do get more if they are specially trained SWAT, EXPLOSIVES, etc. military is the same way. So is private industry. A electrician may start at 60k a year but if they do high voltage, lineman or life safety or solar or wind power, controls etc they can demand more money as they know more than the regular electricians.

Ultimately the job is inherently dangerous simply because of the job itself puts you in a close relationship with criminals and bad people.

In order to get good people the pay and benefits need to be there also.
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