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Old 07-11-2020, 08:13 PM
 
440 posts, read 142,198 times
Reputation: 573

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In response to the OP--
Police in the US have one of the strongest Unions of anybody. The same Police Unions that have made police not accountable for their violent actions have also given them ridiculous salaries. We can also thank the teacher Unions for creating a situation where incompetent public school teachers cannot be fired. I am not against all Unions, just against the Police and Teacher Unions. They are ruining the Country.
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Old 07-15-2020, 12:55 AM
 
4,385 posts, read 1,615,832 times
Reputation: 3875
Quote:
Originally Posted by Electrician4you View Post
Don’t make excuses for a dangerous city and try t9 downplay it. Look at any crime map and SA is a freaking rainbow of icons of anything petty to murder.

It would be even worse if there were no cops. You think that having some unarmed social worker showing up to a F-Troop party is gonna make them stop bangin’? Or stop family disputes? When daddy is so drunk he can’t remember his own name but “knows his wife did something he needs to teach her a lesson “. Those people are gonna get chewed up and spit out.

I bet cops would like nothing more than to go back to being cops not social workers.

Cops don’t stop crime? Operation Smoking Aces, Black Flag and many others. I guess that’s nothing. Cops take down bad guys all the time. Ok they can’t stop every crime but then again you can’t be everywhere. I’ve worked in Santa Ana for 25 years. It’s always been dangerous.

What are you talking about? Taxpayers are the ones voting raises on the ballot.

Just wait till all this defund/disband the police blows up in the politicians faces.
I'm not making excuses for Santa Ana, where are you getting that? It's a dump. But you go ahead and tell the specific reasons why it's a shot hole? What is the root cause of that.

Nobody is arguing that we shouldn't have cops. Again where you getting that?

So cops in Compton or Chicago should be paid exponentially higher? Cop in Irvine should be paid next to nothing based on your argument.

Get real with the argument. The cop salaries have nothing to do with what they do, they're based on being political sell outs.
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Old 07-15-2020, 02:09 PM
 
315 posts, read 145,580 times
Reputation: 541
Simple solution. Stop voting Democrat.
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Old 07-20-2020, 11:52 AM
 
Location: Cypress, CA
801 posts, read 1,490,044 times
Reputation: 863
I am Straight Republican Ticket Voting this coming election. EXCEPT Trump. We need a moderate republican.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dump1567 View Post
Simple solution. Stop voting Democrat.
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Old 09-08-2020, 01:22 AM
 
Location: Costa Mesa
183 posts, read 141,635 times
Reputation: 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by Igor Blevin View Post
If you think the cops numbers look huge, you should look at the salaries for University of California staff. There are so many millionaires, I can't even find your garden variety English Lit Professor.

If anybody can make heads or tails of the UC portion of Transparent Calfornia, I would love to know what your garden variety classroom professor takes down each year in base pay vs. total pay. The first 20 pages are indecipherable. I quit trying to figure out the code. I'm lost.

Most do not go into academia to get rich. The private sector is a lot more lucrative.
Also, private school professors from comparable institutions typically make more than UC professors (i.e. USC)

Basic classroom teaching positions are usually done by teaching assistants, adjunct faculty, and staff, with lower salaries than most full time professors (the faculty). Also, administrators have a line management role, so more responsibilities. Some have multi-million dollar dept budgets to manage.

It is understandable why you cannot interpret the info, because large public institutions have a complex salary structure to fit multiple professions and occupations. One equation does not fit all, in compensation. For instance, some professors had high positions in the private sector, or respected in their profession due to their expertise and experience. To recruit these types of people, faculty positions are often augmented through a private endowment, which can impact a base salary (make it look small than it actually is). Some professors are consultants or do activities that brings in their own revenue stream, so they need a different salary structure, like law school professors...practicing law, so what kind of salary/compensation/cut do you give them? Professors are also encouraged to develop and spin off companies based on research and work conducted in their labs and offices. The university owns a portion of the patent or rights, which could lead to millions. To keep this talent connected to the university, their salaries and pay structure must be high, because the university makes more by keeping them around. The business contracts, research grants, publicity/exposure that these professors bring could be in the millions for multiple years. Also, Professional programs tend to have higher salaried faculty, like medical school, because they also see patients, in addition to teaching. In my field, there are tenure track, clinical track, clinical-X (research) tracks, which are differing ladder rank career development opportunities. Try finding professionals that are willing to deal with whiny kids! To keep that kind of talent around is costly. Even humanities faculty can have high salaries (many don’t) if they are successful authors or publishers, for the recognition and ability to advance their standings. Prestige and recognition is worth their weight in gold for schools, because it brings in higher caliber students who will later become successful and hopefully donate back to the school. The best schools often have huge endowment funds, so they can pay their faculty more.

Having said that, not all faculty have high salaries. I knew a respected Cellist, who had played in metropolitan symphonies, and later got a job as a music professor, but still had to teach kids on the weekends, to augment his salary. I helped fix his car once, while I was a student.

Unfortunately, defunding the police will likely cause the opposite effect to quality. I would prefer a better trained and compensated police force, than one who can’t recruit talent. I have no qualms with a decent salary for the police. IMO, defund the police unions and stop them from protecting the bad apples that ruin the reputation of others that wear blue. The unions should stick with labor laws and fighting for benefits, instead of telling police depts and officers what the they can or can’t do, what they should say or can’t tell, and how to be police officers.

Last edited by pharmboyinSD; 09-08-2020 at 01:41 AM..
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Old 09-12-2020, 11:54 AM
 
Location: Orange County, CA USA
335 posts, read 125,883 times
Reputation: 394
Cops and firefighters make more money than engineers and soldiers because they have to respond to domestic violence calls and run into burning buildings with 40 lbs. of gear on and save people who set their hovel on fire by using a camping stove indoors for heat. With that said, the DROP program is a cash cow for firefighters and cops who game the system.
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Old 09-12-2020, 02:10 PM
 
Location: California
67 posts, read 31,315 times
Reputation: 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by Igor Blevin View Post
If you think the cops numbers look huge, you should look at the salaries for University of California staff. There are so many millionaires, I can't even find your garden variety English Lit Professor.

If anybody can make heads or tails of the UC portion of Transparent Calfornia, I would love to know what your garden variety classroom professor takes down each year in base pay vs. total pay. The first 20 pages are indecipherable. I quit trying to figure out the code. I'm lost.
I am not sure you know what you are talking about. here is a link to UC academic salaries.

https://www.ucop.edu/academic-person...ry-scales.html

Yes, some people have massive administrative appointments on top and some people are paid above scale but the link is a good starting point for the discussion.

Also, to become a UC professor, one has to do the following:

1) Be in a very top group in your undergrad college so you are admitted to a good graduate program
(I would say one has to be in give or take top 10% undergrad students at UC to be admitted to a grad program at another UC campus).

2) Successfully study for 4-6 years in a graduate school, preferably one of the best ones; be in a top quarter in your graduate program to secure a postdoc appointment (a temporary 2-3 years research appointment) upon graduation; better yet be in a top 10% of your grad program to secure a really excellent postdoc appointment. This appointment is sometimes followed by yet another postdoc appointment.

3) Be one of better postdocs at an excellent research university and get hired as a tenure track faculty at UC. For example, most UC Irvine postdocs can only dream of getting an academic tenure track position at a comparable institution.

4) Get tenure 4-8 years later (OK, 90% tenure track faculty get that promotion but it requires excellence in research and a decent teaching record ).

5) Get promotion to Full Professor (keeping excellent research and decent teaching and expanding administrative duties) 4-6 years later.

6) Get promotion to Full Professor step 6 (after another 9-12 years).

Academic year salary for Full Professor step 6 is about 140K. Most people are about 50 or older when they make it that far. It is true that quite a few of faculty have off-scale additions to their salaries, especially at UCLA, UC Berkeley, and maybe UC San Diego. Still, I doubt that UC Irvine faculty on average are paid significantly more than the amounts prescribed in Ladder Ranks tables given above- most off-scales, if any
are not that significant, unless they are linked to an administrative position.
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Old 09-12-2020, 02:26 PM
 
Location: State of Transition
87,821 posts, read 81,562,175 times
Reputation: 91642
Quote:
Originally Posted by CLT4 View Post
They do it in many areas of the country for about $45,000 a year and recruit cops still. So Cal cost of living isn't 5 times the cost of other metros. The Washington DC and Boston area for example have similar cost of living to So Cal (and more expensive than the Inland Empire) and cops make approx $65,000 on average in the Metropolitan PD and Boston PD.

Many So Cal patrol cops make more than the highest ranking members of the US military, and MUCH more than boots on the ground soldiers.
In those areas, probably rents/RE are lower. In higher COL areas, cops don't make enough to be able to live in the communities they serve. Which isn't an excuse to give them carte blanche to set whatever salaries they want. For sure a reasonable, happy medium needs to be found.

The Sunday NY Times recently had a feature article on police unions. I think it was in their Magazine section ("New York Times Magazine", in case anyone wants to look it up). It went into detail re: the OP's claim that the unions are very powerful, and not in a good way, to some extent.
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Old 09-12-2020, 02:32 PM
 
Location: State of Transition
87,821 posts, read 81,562,175 times
Reputation: 91642
Quote:
Originally Posted by norcalsocal View Post
I am not sure you know what you are talking about. here is a link to UC academic salaries.

https://www.ucop.edu/academic-person...ry-scales.html

Yes, some people have massive administrative appointments on top and some people are paid above scale but the link is a good starting point for the discussion.

Also, to become a UC professor, one has to do the following:

1) Be in a very top group in your undergrad college so you are admitted to a good graduate program
(I would say one has to be in give or take top 10% undergrad students at UC to be admitted to a grad program at another UC campus).

2) Successfully study for 4-6 years in a graduate school, preferably one of the best ones; be in a top quarter in your graduate program to secure a postdoc appointment (a temporary 2-3 years research appointment) upon graduation; better yet be in a top 10% of your grad program to secure a really excellent postdoc appointment. This appointment is sometimes followed by yet another postdoc appointment.

3) Be one of better postdocs at an excellent research university and get hired as a tenure track faculty at UC. For example, most UC Irvine postdocs can only dream of getting an academic tenure track position at a comparable institution.

4) Get tenure 4-8 years later (OK, 90% tenure track faculty get that promotion but it requires excellence in research and a decent teaching record ).

5) Get promotion to Full Professor (keeping excellent research and decent teaching and expanding administrative duties) 4-6 years later.

6) Get promotion to Full Professor step 6 (after another 9-12 years).

Academic year salary for Full Professor step 6 is about 140K. Most people are about 50 or older when they make it that far. It is true that quite a few of faculty have off-scale additions to their salaries, especially at UCLA, UC Berkeley, and maybe UC San Diego. Still, I doubt that UC Irvine faculty on average are paid significantly more than the amounts prescribed in Ladder Ranks tables given above- most off-scales, if any
are not that significant, unless they are linked to an administrative position.
To chime in here, faculty from out of state applying for UC teaching jobs often turn the job offers down after they check into the local COL, especially RE. This was true in the 90's, and is even more true now. So the UC system does have trouble recruiting people, due to salaries being out of synch with COL in places like Berkeley and SF. I can't speak to LA, Irvine, Riverside, SD.

Also, the poster you're responding to said UC "staff", which was an odd choice of words. If he meant literally support staff, he's even farther off. Most staff that aren't tech don't make enough even to be able to pay rents in the Bay Area, unless they're half of a dual-income couple, are living with parents, or have some other house-share situation going on. It would be interesting to make a comparison between UC Berkeley staff salaries vs. COL, and Davis, SD, Santa Cruz, etc.
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Old 09-12-2020, 02:57 PM
 
Location: California
67 posts, read 31,315 times
Reputation: 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post

Also, the poster you're responding to said UC "staff", which was an odd choice of words. If he meant literally support staff, he's even farther off. Most staff that aren't tech don't make enough even to be able to pay rents in the Bay Area, unless they're half of a dual-income couple, are living with parents, or have some other house-share situation going on. It would be interesting to make a comparison between UC Berkeley staff salaries vs. COL, and Davis, SD, Santa Cruz, etc.
I definitely do not think that regular UC staff members (graduate program coordinators, academic personnel coordinators, administrative assistants, contracts and grants people and such) are overpaid, probably the opposite is true. However, it is also probably true that UC bureaucratic apparatus is growing exponentially, much faster that faculty and students. Quite a few bureaucratic staff positions are very lucrative and well paid.
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