The Truth about California from a former west coast Girl... (August: place to live, centers)
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I guess my question is - why do people believe they have to move out of California based on their experience in one area or one region? CA is very diverse and has a lot of great areas. I've seen a number of people post about how bad OC is, and yet, it seems as if they've never experienced any other part of the state and they still feel they need to get out of CA, as if the area they were in represents the entire state. I understand the whole state of CA has some big problems but it's not like the only option is to move out of the state. A move within the state could prove to be just as rewarding for some as moving out of state. I understand some of you have lived all over the state, but I'm not talking about you.
Ludachris, although I've lived all over this state and seven others, it has become apparent that remaining in California, anywhere in California, is not in my best interests in terms of politics, laws, regulations, demographics, crime rates, housing costs and cost of living. I think it's all or some combination of those that inspire others to look elsewhere as well.
California has a great deal to offer. I just know I'll be happier, more content and comfortably retired elsewhere. It's not a repudiation of California as much as it's being drawn to a different way and rhythm of life.
Ludachris, although I've lived all over this state and seven others, it has become apparent that remaining in California, anywhere in California, is not in my best interests in terms of politics, laws, regulations, demographics, crime rates, housing costs and cost of living. I think it's all or some combination of those that inspire others to look elsewhere as well.
California has a great deal to offer. I just know I'll be happier, more content and comfortably retired elsewhere. It's not a repudiation of California as much as it's being drawn to a different way and rhythm of life.
But again, you've lived all over the state. You're at a point in your life where you want to retire, and I'll admit, CA isn't a great place to retire right now for many due to it's higher cost of housing and higher taxes. But you aren't part of the majority of the people I was referring to.
I was talking to all those who have only experienced one part of CA and are looking for alternatives. Of all the things you listed, the only constants throughout the state is the laws, regulations, and taxes. The housing costs, demographics, cost of living, crime rates, (and to some extent, politics) vary throughout the state to some degree. It all depends on exactly what you're looking for and the order of your priority list. For example, if you don't need to live in a major metro area like LA, San Diego, or the SF Bay Area, you can find much lower housing costs. And once you get out of those areas, the politics tend to be a bit more conservative, the traffic is lighter, the crime rates tend to be lower, and the cost of living drops some. The laws and regulations tend to be the same, as do the state taxes though.
Last edited by Ludachris; 06-18-2009 at 02:38 PM..
I was talking to all those who have only experienced one part of CA and are looking for alternatives. Of all the things you listed, the only constants throughout the state is the laws, regulations, and taxes. The housing costs, demographics, cost of living, crime rates, (and to some extent, politics) vary throughout the state to some degree. It all depends on exactly what you're looking for and the order of your priority list. For example, if you don't need to live in a major metro area like LA, San Diego, or the SF Bay Area, you can find much lower housing costs. And once you get out of those areas, the politics tend to be a bit more conservative, the traffic is lighter, the crime rates tend to be lower, and the cost of living drops some. The laws and regulations tend to be the same, as do the state taxes though.
I quiite agree. I've had the opportunity to experience the good, the bad and the ugly of the state and far more good than the other two. Those who wish to remain but who also wish for a change of pace, a more affordable area, different topography, alternatyive lifestyles, any political persuasion can certainly find it in California far more so than elsewhere. It's a rare state, if not a unique one, in which you may experience mountains, flat agricultural lands, deserts and the ocean along with almost any temperature variances you may wish from the hottest spot in the country to the coldest or close to it. You can literally be surfing one day and skiing the next.
I've checked their web site. The Southland has a lot less smog alerts than they used to. But their air is definitely not as clean as what we have in the Bay Area and still usually ranks as the worst in the US. I've seen it for myself and the stats on the web link you posted bear that out.
As I said, yes the air quality is better, but it's still crappy...especially in the inland areas.
Its probably true that some areas of socal have improved, but the IE, especially the Riverside area, seems to collect everyones smog. I'd tell ANYONE who has breathing issues or ashma to avoid it. Along with visiting to see how you like the area, you should come with the people who will live with you, kids, parents etc. And come in the mid summer not mid winter. See if you can manage the smog or not. The very first thing I noticed when I got away was being able to fully breath and no ichy eyes. Long ago my eye doctor denied me contacts due to that problem.
One reason I like where I moved so much is research. Some of it here, and just getting as much fact as I could. And visiting with an open mind. I wanted to like it but allowed that I might not.
I think that what everyone must remember is that some are more sensitive and likely damaged by smog and that saying the smog "isn't bad" is highly subjective. I personally wouldn't take a small child into a smoggy area to grow up. I lost lung capacity thanks to that. I wouldn't take an elderly relative who had any respitary problems either. Just not worth it.
Its all our value system and what makes each of us feel at home. And future considerations like health and what we can handle. I'd never try somewhere with snow banks all winter, but the freezing but above 0 temps here we had in cycles last winter were perfectly liveable. Its the other things, pace of life, open space, generally laid back feel, that I came for and love. (and after here you'd never call socal laid back).
There is the *right* place for everyone somewhere, but no such thing as the perfect one.
Anytime you post in a forum such as this by giving your opinion, you open yourself up to criticism. Trust me, I know. And some of it will be quite rude. Online forums are, for the most part, anonymous outlets for people to give opinions and make comments that they otherwise wouldn't offer up in the real world. People will say things to you online that they wouldn't say to you in person. You'll have to expect that. Not everyone will be courteous.
Thanks for sharing your experiences. I think they will be useful for people. Again, the only reason I'm even replying to this thread is because of the title. I didn't want people thinking that your experience with OC was representative of all California regions, or even that of others living in OC. Some will obviously share your opinion, but others won't. It's just one viewpoint. I've debated with others who share your view and they were just as rude and critical as how you've been treated here. It happens to everyone. Insults and personal attacks should not be allowed, but sometimes they aren't blatant enough to require action.
A little off topic here, but I'd rather there be rude people who have to be nasty over the nice smooth pudding of a couple boards I've encountered. Most of the discussion (not the arguments but the real discussion) would not exist on those because they are so well watched. If someone doesn't like my post, quite simply its not my problem. If we express our views and are straightforward and someone else disagrees thats communicating.
Been on boards since the early bbs's and the ones people stick with are the ones where you do get the trolls and those who just have to pick things apart and be negative forever. Its a lot better than having to wonder if what you said will get your message deleted or get you banned for expressing your point of view.
This is where confusion arises for people reading this site. I don't own my place. And I have a roommate. Due to lots of student loan debt and a huge car payment, I couldn't afford to live here without a roommate. If I felt the need to buy a place, I'd be looking in largely unappealing areas.
However, I don't feel the need to buy a place nor do I mind having a roommate. That's just my preference and others may differ.
For me, living where I've lived-Hermosa being one nice example of this-I've had great experiences and lived in great areas. So, when people come on and post how it sucks yada yada, I call them on it. Now, if they prefaced everything by saying that they have a modest income (like me) AND MUST buy a house..then things change and you won't find me debating them. IMO living in Ontario, Canada may well be better than living in Ontario ,California.
But for one who is willing to rent and have a roomie, you can easily live in the very best of communities even on a modest income like I make. And in the areas I enjoy and have lived in are absolutely nothing like the Negative Nancies here have tried to tell people.
Now, should I feel compelled to buy a place, I'd need to start making a good bit more money. What I won't do is buy a place in a crummy area. It's a mistake that is "makeable" I understand. But just don't base your opinion on all of California largely off of experiences in a select few mediocre parts of the state.
Thank you for posting the real truth so people thinking about coming here can evaluate it as it relates to their own experience. There is nothing wrong with your lifestyle, I applaud it. I am personally going to be entering into a similar lifestyle in Phoenix next year. After all my years in CA, I want those who are thinking about moving here to leave LA-LA land behind and start dealing with reality. If that still makes them happy, this is the place for them. If not, they may be in for a huge culture shock and a loss of a lot of money that they could have spent in a more promising place for them. Again, thanks for your input.
I guess my question is - why do people believe they have to move out of California based on their experience in one area or one region? CA is very diverse and has a lot of great areas. I've seen a number of people post about how bad OC is, and yet, it seems as if they've never experienced any other part of the state and they still feel they need to get out of CA, as if the area they were in represents the entire state. I understand the whole state of CA has some big problems but it's not like the only option is to move out of the state. A move within the state could prove to be just as rewarding for some as moving out of state. I understand some of you have lived all over the state, but I'm not talking about you.
The original poster would be a perfect example I suppose - Raelyn28, had you considered trying NorCal or even different areas within SoCal? NorCal has a lot of great things and doesn't suffer from some of the negatives of SoCal. It's still expensive in many areas, and has it's shady parts, but it's classic CA in many regards and it can be a breath of fresh air for SoCal'ers. It's worth looking into for some. If you moved, where did you move and why did you choose that spot?
I can give you my answer. I couldn't stand socal anymore and had wanted to leave for a long time. I'd been up in the Redding area ( and we tried to sell and move to Shingletown, just below Lassen ) a decade before. I did think about nocal.
But the truth of the matter is that all the taxes and costs and services and drain on resourses exists all over the state. I knew what I wanted to find. I found it somewhere else I could afford. And even the smaller places in nocal are growing and sprawling. I don't think this area is going to do that.
And I wanted a NEW start in a different place. Going to another place in the same state would not really do that. I will always be a californian. I will never fit in perfectly here, but then I didn't fit in california either. But for me something different, something that gave great space from the culture, was what I needed.
I don't hate California. I am sad that what it was to me is just totally gone and I don't like what its become. I'm representative of many many many of those who leave. But the intent of this thread is GOOD. So many people still buy the old image and find its nothing like that anymore. Which is fine if you like it or find enough compensations. But the image needs to be blown away and something more realistic be what potential residents see.
I'm representative of many many many of those who leave.
And I'm sure a lot of people feel they are representative of why many people leave CA. But in fact, it's your opinion that you are representative of why many, many, many people leave CA. It's still just an assumption that is difficult to verify - except of course when you see all the posts here. The reality is people leave states all the time because the area no longer suits them, which is the case here too. It's not really anything new.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nightbird47
But the intent of this thread is GOOD. So many people still buy the old image and find its nothing like that anymore. Which is fine if you like it or find enough compensations. But the image needs to be blown away and something more realistic be what potential residents see.
I don't think the general image of CA is any less accurate than it was 10-20 years ago. The image most people have is that of the 60's and 70's, which has been gone for quite some time. The culture shock will be there no matter what when they see the reality.
I do agree though, this thread is good. I think more people need to go and spend more time in the places they're thinking of moving to. I know we did that when we moved to Denver and it helped immensely. My image of Denver as a Californian was way off. Research and seeing the area for yourself does wonders.
Last edited by Ludachris; 06-19-2009 at 11:45 AM..
And I'm sure a lot of people feel they are representative of why many people leave CA. But in fact, it's your opinion that you are representative of why many, many, many people leave CA. It's still just an assumption that is difficult to verify - except of course when you see all the posts here. The reality is people leave states all the time because the area no longer suits them, which is the case here too. It's not really anything new.
I don't think the general image of CA is any less accurate than it was 10-20 years ago. The image most people have is that of the 60's and 70's, which has been gone for quite some time. The culture shock will be there no matter what when they see the reality.
I do agree though, this thread is good. I think more people need to go and spend more time in the places they're thinking of moving to. I know we did that when we moved to Denver and it helped immensely. My image of Denver as a Californian was way off. Research and seeing the area for yourself does wonders.
These are really GREAT posts and I am glad that I started the thread. Even though it has raised much controversy I think it has helped many people and that was my goal when I started it. Life isn't easy right at the current time (anywhere on this planet) for any of us and hopefully people will understand that no matter where they go times are tough. Right now we all need to choose wisely if being faced with a move. Thanks to all of you for sharing and hopefully I haven't made too many enemies on this thread. It wasn't my intention to do so.
I don't think the general image of CA is any less accurate than it was 10-20 years ago. The image most people have is that of the 60's and 70's, which has been gone for quite some time.
Yea, this is true, however I would submit that there was another peak in the mid 80's.
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