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I read thru a couple dozen posts in this thread and am struck by the fact so much of what is posted, both positive and negative, is true. Its almost like some of the postings are from people living in different countries not the same state. People can live in California and have a very different experience.
It makes me wonder, how much of the positive is posted by people who have the means to live well here and the negative by people of middle class or moderate means who are finding it harder and harder to live the CA dream? Could it be a reflection of the income stratification and "third world de-evolution" ( and by that I mean class/wealth divisions - NOT race) of the state?
I read thru a couple dozen posts in this thread and am struck by the fact so much of what is posted, both positive and negative, is true. Its almost like some of the postings are from people living in different countries not the same state. People can live in California and have a very different experience.
It makes me wonder, how much of the positive is posted by people who have the means to live well here and the negative by people of middle class or moderate means who are finding it harder and harder to live the CA dream? Could it be a reflection of the income stratification and "third world de-evolution" ( and by that I mean class/wealth divisions - NOT race) of the state?
Good observation. But I don't think it's a simple matter of the wealthier people who can afford to live in CA posting positive comments and the middle class not being able to afford it posting negative comments. Most of the people I know in CA (northern) are very middle class and don't share the negative sentiments posted by many here - and none of them jump on forums like this to share their positive comments about living in CA. That's why I find it so funny that people will come away from this forum thinking that the majority of the middle class in CA is unhappy and wanting to leave the state - when the reality I've found in CA from people I know is nowhere near the same as the small sampling you find here in this forum. Again - most all the people I know are from northern CA, so maybe it's different... maybe most of the SoCal people do want to move out of the state, I'm not sure.
I think the one aspect missing in this discussion is where people choose to live in CA. Granted, many of the "desirable" areas in CA can be ridiculously expensive, but there are countless areas in CA that are still good places to live by many accounts that aren't in Orange County, San Francisco, San Diego, or some of the other super expensive areas. I think it's becoming more difficult for some to justify the compromises they're making to live in certain areas, and that's heavily compounded by a bad economy. But when you choose to live in one of the most expensive parts of the state (and country), you're likely going to have to make more sacrifices if you're not making a lot of money. If your idea of the CA dream is to live in an expensive area, then you'll have to figure out how to sustain that lifestyle, or move to a less expensive area and continue working toward the CA dream.
What I've come away with from this discussion is that people seem to form their opinion of the entire state based on one particular part of the state (or maybe two). Some people only view CA as San Diego, or Orange County, or the Bay Area, etc. And if they're having a tough time living the lifestyle they want to live in that area, they jump on forums like this and tell a story of how the CA dream is dying (or is dead). All the while, many other middle class people are enjoying life in CA even in the tough times - granted, maybe on a budget in these tough times, but enjoying it none the less.
It just goes to show that the CA dream is different for everyone, and that maybe we should discuss what that dream entails before we can determine that it's dead.
I happen to live in one of those super expensive coastal areas. What's left of my family in California is here. What am I going to do? Move to Frenso? Its so far away that it might as well be another state, yet I'd still be subject to all of the big problems in California that affect the entire state. Once you get out of super expensive big coastal cities, the economy is even more depressed so good luck getting a job even if the cost of living is cheap by California standards. Even some areas that have no jobs are STILL crazy expensive, like the central coast. I'm not a retiree with $600k in equity to take with me so that rules that out.
I happen to live in one of those super expensive coastal areas. What's left of my family in California is here. What am I going to do? Move to Frenso? Its so far away that it might as well be another state, yet I'd still be subject to all of the big problems in California that affect the entire state. Once you get out of super expensive big coastal cities, the economy is even more depressed so good luck getting a job even if the cost of living is cheap by California standards. Even some areas that have no jobs are STILL crazy expensive, like the central coast. I'm not a retiree with $600k in equity to take with me so that rules that out.
I'm not sure what your situation is, but I can tell you what we are planning. We moved away from the Bay Area in 2005, taking our equity with us. We're now looking at moving to the Sacramento area at some point soon. We're aware of the state's problems, but we want to be "closer" to family - even if it's not down the street from them. We'll be close enough to visit them on weekends (2 hour drive) and still not have to compromise so much by living in the expensive Bay Area. I'll continue to do web development contracting and other work like I've been doing the past 7 years. I know not everyone can do that, but I've worked hard to put myself in a flexible career situation for this reason.
Like you, we want to be close to family. And we'll put up with the state's problems to make that happen. We've found some great areas outside of Sacramento where we feel we can be pretty happy and get our kids a good education. We're concerned about the job situation and the state's economy, but feel we can make it work.
I guess what I'm trying to say is, your situation is not unique to California. It "might" get better by moving out of state, or it might create a whole new set of problems for you/your family. It all depends on the needs of your family and your lifestyle. Can you move out of the area you're in and still commute in? Have you looked for other jobs in other surrounding areas not too far from where you live now? Areas that would keep you somewhat close to family and still allow you to enjoy the things you like most about CA? Maybe some temporary changes would help to make it though while the economy recovers.
Can you move out of the area you're in and still commute in? Have you looked for other jobs in other surrounding areas not too far from where you live now? Areas that would keep you somewhat close to family and still allow you to enjoy the things you like most about CA? Maybe some temporary changes would help to make it though while the economy recovers.
The only area somewhat nearby that's cheaper is the Inland Empire. We don't really want to live there and the traffic back into OC makes the commute a non-starter for my wife and I as neither of us have no desire to spend half our lives crawling on the 91 freeway. I work for myself so moving even 50 miles away from my base pretty much means starting all over again. If I'm not going to go through all that effort and expense to move somewhere that has all of SoCal's problems, few of the benefits, and that honestly we're not attracted to. Any savings on housing gets eaten up by gasoline, car repairs, and sky high utility bills.
The only area somewhat nearby that's cheaper is the Inland Empire. We don't really want to live there and the traffic back into OC makes the commute a non-starter for my wife and I as neither of us have no desire to spend half our lives crawling on the 91 freeway. I work for myself so moving even 50 miles away from my base pretty much means starting all over again. If I'm not going to go through all that effort and expense to move somewhere that has all of SoCal's problems, few of the benefits, and that honestly we're not attracted to. Any savings on housing gets eaten up by gasoline, car repairs, and sky high utility bills.
I can appreciate the idea of not wanting to commute. But it sounds like your only choices are to move somewhere else or make more money where you're at. If you're going to move somewhere else, are there any other places in SoCal that would keep you relatively close to your family, yet would allow you to continue doing the work you're doing now - even if you had to start over? It sounds like if you move out of state you'd have the same issues with work, plus you'd be further away from family.
Have you considered looking into NorCal? I know it would be similar to moving out of state in terms of distance to family. But if you really enjoy California, it might make more sense for you than moving to say, Arizona or Texas. You could still take a long weekend drive to visit family. Just a thought.
I know it's not easy coming up with answers when you'd rather just stay where you're at. I'm just trying to offer some ideas.
I can appreciate the idea of not wanting to commute. But it sounds like your only choices are to move somewhere else or make more money where you're at. If you're going to move somewhere else, are there any other places in SoCal that would keep you relatively close to your family, yet would allow you to continue doing the work you're doing now - even if you had to start over? It sounds like if you move out of state you'd have the same issues with work, plus you'd be further away from family.
Have you considered looking into NorCal? I know it would be similar to moving out of state in terms of distance to family. But if you really enjoy California, it might make more sense for you than moving to say, Arizona or Texas. You could still take a long weekend drive to visit family. Just a thought.
I know it's not easy coming up with answers when you'd rather just stay where you're at. I'm just trying to offer some ideas.
The big issue is the cost of housing. Anywhere in California that's big enough to have a decent economy (current recession not withstanding) is super expensive. Its not like coastal LA or SD is any less expensive. Inland is cheaper but I don't want to live there.
The Bay Area has the same issues we have down here where the nice areas with a moderate climate are mega expensive and the inland areas with nasty hot climates and nastier commutes are the only affordable areas. The Central Valley doesn't really anything for me so that really reduces the options in within California.
If I'm going to put out the effort to move to a new place, its going to be somewhere I want to be, with a better quality of life, not somewhere that's just cheap but while still has all the negatives of where I'm at now.
The big issue is the cost of housing. Anywhere in California that's big enough to have a decent economy (current recession not withstanding) is super expensive. Its not like coastal LA or SD is any less expensive. Inland is cheaper but I don't want to live there.
The Bay Area has the same issues we have down here where the nice areas with a moderate climate are mega expensive and the inland areas with nasty hot climates and nastier commutes are the only affordable areas. The Central Valley doesn't really anything for me so that really reduces the options in within California.
If I'm going to put out the effort to move to a new place, its going to be somewhere I want to be, with a better quality of life, not somewhere that's just cheap but while still has all the negatives of where I'm at now.
99.9% of the areas outside of the Bay Area didn't do much for me at one point in my life either, but our move to Denver gave me a different perspective - and it's also a different time in our lives. Maybe you just need a different perspective - moving out of state will certainly do that for you, but I still don't know that you need to in order to enjoy life more.
I think your perception of NorCal might be a little off. The "cheaper" areas don't necessarily equate to poor quality of life. But I suppose the definition of quality of life is subjective. We figure a move from our Denver suburb to the Sacramento suburb we like would be a pretty lateral move overall in terms of quality of life - pros and cons to each area.
So what parts of the country are you considering at this point? Just curious.
99.9% of the areas outside of the Bay Area didn't do much for me at one point in my life either, but our move to Denver gave me a different perspective - and it's also a different time in our lives. Maybe you just need a different perspective - moving out of state will certainly do that for you, but I still don't know that you need to in order to enjoy life more.
I think your perception of NorCal might be a little off. The "cheaper" areas don't necessarily equate to poor quality of life. But I suppose the definition of quality of life is subjective. We figure a move from our Denver suburb to the Sacramento suburb we like would be a pretty lateral move overall in terms of quality of life - pros and cons to each area.
So what parts of the country are you considering at this point? Just curious.
Sacramento is okay-- it's not on my list of favorite cities, but I'd call it an "honorable mention." I visited Sacramento frequently when I was living in Reno. The eastern suburbs of Sacramento climbing up into the Sierra foothills are pretty nice-- Roseville, Rocklin, Auburn, Folsom. But those nice areas are not exactly so cheap either. Other than working at the state government, I can't really figure out what people do for a living up there. The summer in Sacramento is horrible with putrid, stagnant air that is worse than LA, and it can feel awfully hot & humid. I'd rather put up with a summer in Las Vegas than a Sacramento/central valley summer. And the winter is awfully gloomy & rainy-- significantly worse than SoCal. Sacramento is a good location in terms of the places you can drive to in a 1.5-2hr drive, but there's not really much of interest closer than that. Denver blows Sacramento away for overall quality of life as long as you can put up with the brownness and the extreme weather.
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The summer in Sacramento is horrible with putrid, stagnant air that is worse than LA, and it can feel awfully hot & humid. I'd rather put up with a summer in Las Vegas than a Sacramento/central valley summer. And the winter is awfully gloomy & rainy-- significantly worse than SoCal. Sacramento is a good location in terms of the places you can drive to in a 1.5-2hr drive, but there's not really much of interest closer than that. Denver blows Sacramento away for overall quality of life as long as you can put up with the brownness and the extreme weather.
