Preppers, Permies & Off griders - Need advice. (Wheeler: mortgage, home)

[Yojimbo11]

Originally Posted by Larry Caldwell

20 acres is a pretty small lot in a rural area. You may have trouble getting a building permit on a parcel that small. Minimum size for a building permit in my neighborhood is 160 acres, though 80 acre parcels are possible with a little work. You will find your neighbors less than welcoming as you try to build something that is little more than an unlicensed landfill.

Yeah I'll be forgoing permits, getting a trailer then doing what I want thanks anyways though.

[PNW-type-gal]

Originally Posted by Larry Caldwell

If you get engineered plans, there is no possibility of the structural design being rejected, though that root cellar in the picture obviously is not fit for human habitation. For that matter, neither is the travel trailer for several days a year, as everything freezes up. If you build you have to meet basic fire and life safety codes, including seismic and sanitary codes. You may think you are just going to use a composting toilet, but that doesn't mean you don't need a kitchen sink with a washable surface, a separate bathroom sink, and shower minimum for personal hygiene. You can use a gray water system for the shower and laundry, but you have to have a septic system for food scraps, and it's going to be sized according to the number of bedrooms, so you don't gain anything by shoveling your personal manure.

I've stayed a few nights in an "earth ship" and it was fairly pleasant for being pretty much dug into a hillside. The down sides, for me, were the slightly dank and moldy smell of the grey water and the lack of interior light on a cloudy day.

The things the owner did admit is that interior mold is a constant problem, that the grey water recycling has broken down several times, requiring a complete cleaning and reset and that they have to have outside water deliveries in their climate. Because of soil issues, they use a septic holding system that requires monthly (or more) pumping.

When we were in Taos, I stopped by and toured the official Earth Houses and noticed the same thing.


Earthship - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Yojimbo11]

Despite the flaws in the Earthship plans they are an easy route and already approved in Oregon, many of the flaws in the design are precisely why you don't want to get bound to subpar plans just because they are "approved".

[PNW-type-gal]

I think the other issue is that people are accustomed to doing the kind of daily maintenance that grey water systems require. It is a really serious issue and you have to stay on top of it - once things get out of hand, you are sunk (inadvertent joke, sorry). Which is why I suspect that planning divisions are leery of them.

Since you were mentioning eastern/central Oregon, the big issue out here is that we do not really get enough rain or snow to maintain a year-round residence. The off-gridders I know out toward Paisely end up having water trucked in for late summer - the quality of the water is questionable, but it works for the garden and greenhouses (greenhouses are absolutely essential for a large vegetable crop that you can count on out here). There is a real advantage in being west of the Cascades, as far as water supply and growing season.

You've probably already come across self-reliance | homesteading | canning | backwoods | magazine but that is probably one of the better publications about practical "alternative" living. it's all just a little too paranoid and too much work for me....

[Yojimbo11]

Originally Posted by PNW-type-gal

I think the other issue is that people are accustomed to doing the kind of daily maintenance that grey water systems require. It is a really serious issue and you have to stay on top of it - once things get out of hand, you are sunk (inadvertent joke, sorry). Which is why I suspect that planning divisions are leery of them.

Since the only difference between a grey water system and traditional plumbing is that in a grey water system you have no solid mass or paper to clog up the system and the destination.

Please elaborate in detail on all these "maintenance & Problems" because it sounds like anti-self sufficient harassment and fear mongering.

[PNW-type-gal]

If you are wondering why people aren't responding well to you in this thread, you might take a look at your tone. Why on earth would I want to continue this discussion with you? I know people with first-hand experience with these systems, and they've mentioned problems to me: in your post this becomes "fear-mongering" and harassment.

[Larry Caldwell]

Originally Posted by PNW-type-gal

You've probably already come across self-reliance | homesteading | canning | backwoods | magazine but that is probably one of the better publications about practical "alternative" living. it's all just a little too paranoid and too much work for me....

It's easy to be a prepper in a conventional house by just incorporating a little 19th century technology like a wood stove, windmill for pumping water with a water tower for pressure water, etc. I have done a complete energy retrofit on my 1971 ranch style home.

A small fire in the wood stove keeps the whole house warm even in the worst weather. The house is still warm when we wake up in the morning, and many large windows on the south side of the house keep it warm all day from solar gain. A 2500 gallon spun poly cistern provides low pressure gravity feed water if the power goes out. There is always water for cooking, bathing and flushing. A 15 gallon copper laundry tub on the wood stove provides plenty of water for a hot bath.

There is a generous pantry on shelves in the garage. I like to can my own food, and also buy canned goods on sale. I have been working on planting a homestead orchard, and we have apples, pears, peaches, apricots, figs and plums off of our own trees. The yard is landscaped with herbs like oregano, rosemary, thyme, tarragon, ephedra, yarrow, St. Johns wort, etc.

We do the whole thing without being "alternative" at all. I grew up on a farm, and it's just stuff I learned from my parents and grandparents. We also have some nice 21st century technology, like an 8' electrically operated TV screen with a 3d projector and a THX certified sound system. When you turn off the TV the screen rolls up into the ceiling and the living room becomes a people room again. You can live graciously and be prepared to ride out a disaster at the same time.

[Yojimbo11]

Originally Posted by PNW-type-gal

If you are wondering why people aren't responding well to you in this thread, you might take a look at your tone. Why on earth would I want to continue this discussion with you? I know people with first-hand experience with these systems, and they've mentioned problems to me: in your post this becomes "fear-mongering" and harassment.

I know very well why some people aren't responding well, people in the housing industry having nothing but disdain for do-it-yourselfers.

Their disdain has only increased in the last decade with advent of the internet giving away all their trade secrets making them completely irrelevant if they don't have a bureaucracy to mandate them a place.

Ars technica did a great expose on many of the top do it yourself forums being owned by trades union and contracting companies with paid moderators to quell people from being self sufficient and cutting them out of the loop, they were forced in to clear disclosure after a lawsuit.

Garbage warrior & Behind the green mask are two great documentaries exposing the building industries harassment of self sufficient people.

I posed a very clear question to Off-griders, which you yourself admitted your not as it was to much work and for the "Paranoid" .

The topic being: Which counties did they(meaning people who embrace this lifestyle and are knowledgeable about it) find as being the friendliest and easiest for a off-grid Owner builder.

Instead many took that as a open soapbox to challenge off-grid lifestyles, make rude, condescending, and untrue comments about certain types of structures.

I am not looking for approval or discussion of my lifestyle, I made a clear inquiry to those that share it where they found the least hassle.

[hamellr]

Originally Posted by Yojimbo11

I am not looking for approval or discussion of my lifestyle, I made a clear inquiry to those that share it where they found the least hassle.

And all you did was to start insulting anyone who warned you of issues to expect based on Oregon's laws.

That is why you're not getting any help. If you can't see that then the amount of help you are going to get is going to be somewhere between none and nonexistent.

[Larry Caldwell]

Originally Posted by Yojimbo11

I am not looking for approval or discussion of my lifestyle, I made a clear inquiry to those that share it where they found the least hassle.

Well then, move to Wheeler County. Nobody will care what you do there, because there is nobody to care. According to the 2010 census there were 1441 people in the county, in 1715 square miles. It's the perfect place for someone like you.