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Old 08-25-2013, 12:17 AM
 
Location: Dallas, Oregon & Sunsites Arizona
8,000 posts, read 15,449,882 times
Reputation: 2807

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We are projected to double the world population again in my lifetime. About 20 to 30 years.
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Old 08-25-2013, 12:54 AM
 
222 posts, read 418,946 times
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[quote=Larry Caldwell;31117700]I didn't post that photo of the billboard. Please don't attribute things to me that I didn't post.

I didn't and wouldn't attribute anything to you, the forum program did that.

- The land owners have no responsibility to pass up a good income because you would rather look at dirt. All those wind turbines are on private land, and the ranchers are collecting a steady income from leasing the site.

Correct, so far. Large private ranch owners in the area will receive up to $12,000 annually per turbine leased on their land while they have already received tens of millions of dollars in U.S. government subsidies over the years and then benefiting from taxpayer subsidies of the wind energy industry. Some local ranchers due to benefit or already benefiting from the partially government subsidized wind energy projects were published as receiving nearly $1 million in government agricultural subsidies in 2008 alone. You got one right.


That said, the Columbia Gorge is a scenic reserve and you will never see a wind turbine there.

First Wind had planned to build 40 wind turbine generators on property between The Dalles and Mosier in Wasco County, about 75 miles east of Portland. The turbine towers, standing nearly 260 feet tall and with 240-foot diameter rotors, would have produced a combined 60 megawatts of electricity. Opponents said the turbines would have been visible from wide stretches of the Columbia River Gorge National Scenic Area and might endanger raptors and migrating birds.

The plateau east of there, Walla Walla County and Umatilla County, is just wasteland that takes 5 acres to feed one cow. There's nothing scenic about it. Wind power is the highest and best use.

Have you driven I-84 in the last month, the last year? Do you know where Arlington Oregon is? Biggs Junction? Maryhill, Goldendale? We're talking about Gilliam, Morrow, and Klickitat counties. Walla Walla and Umatilla are 50+ miles east. As soon as the sign stating You Are Leaving The Columbia River Gorge Scenic Byway appears the wind turbines also appear. The river in these photos is the Columbia, the freeway I-84, and Arlington's horizon at night.




- You apparently would feel better about things if we planted tulips around them. Unfortunately, the ranchers are using the land to graze cattle and sheep. The flowers would just be food. You are welcome to buy a couple hundred acres and plant tulips, though.

LOL You're the one who likes Holland's windmills.

- I like the comparison of wind turbines to strip mines. The strip mines destroy the land forever.

I made no reference to strip mines. The photo of the windmill prep site perhaps?

- It has long been agreed that a main east-west intertie from the PNW to Chicago and from Texas to Chicago would allow great improvement in flexibility for future power planning. The Canadians may build the link and just charge us to use it.

Right. Look at the map below and tell me how the generating, transmission and distribution system will work nationwide


The future isn't going to build itself. Somebody has to be thinking about the hundreds of millions of people that will contribute to population growth in this century. America will not survive on extractive energy technology.[/QUOTE

And who thinks about the birds, the deer, the elk and the humans affected by wind turbines?

Last edited by gonpostal; 08-25-2013 at 02:17 AM..
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Old 08-25-2013, 03:08 PM
 
Location: Dallas, Oregon & Sunsites Arizona
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Wind or Nuclear? Your Choice.
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Old 08-25-2013, 05:00 PM
 
Location: Mountains of Oregon
16,215 posts, read 19,208,764 times
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I remember seeing those wind turbines over by Tehachapi, CA, back in the 70's, on the way to Vegas......
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Old 08-25-2013, 05:11 PM
 
Location: Dallas, Oregon & Sunsites Arizona
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Thanks for the pictures. I think they are some beautiful technological marvels. Great pictures.
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Old 08-25-2013, 06:21 PM
 
Location: Myrtle Creek, Oregon
15,296 posts, read 14,706,525 times
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Your photos pretty much hamstring your whine. There is nothing scenic in any of those pictures. It varies from bare dirt to what appears to be wheat crops, not unexpected on the south edge of the Palouse. The wind turbines don't obstruct any view of anything.

I like your "would have" panic about wind farm siting that didn't happen. If they were truly visible from the scenic corridor, the project would never have got off the ground. That's apparently what happened. A quick look at the company's web site reveals that First Wind has no projects in Oregon. It's tough to whine about something that doesn't exist, isn't it?

Your figures for siting leases are also very inflated. Currently, a landowner can collect $2000 to $4000 a year, depending on how good the site is. We can assume the Washington sites are some of the better ones. As for crop subsidies, you apparently aren't aware that only 3 crops are subsidized: wheat, corn and soybeans. At $25 per acre, a farmer would need 40,000 acres in the program to receive a million a year in subsidies. The subsidies are probably going to be extinct soon anyway. Now that food stamps have been split out of the farm bill, the old coalition that kept the subsidies in place is gone. Most farmers aren't in favor of the subsidies anyway, simply because they don't grow any of the subsidized crops.

I also find it ironic that you want to dictate what happens on private land while decrying government subsidies. Make up your mind.

If you want to know what a national power grid would look like, here's a picture for you:

Visualizing The U.S. Electric Grid : NPR
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Old 08-25-2013, 07:41 PM
 
Location: Dallas, Oregon & Sunsites Arizona
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How can you make that claim. That last night picture is a work of art.
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Old 08-26-2013, 01:08 AM
 
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
27,076 posts, read 45,168,934 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Priscilla Martin View Post
A friend from The Dalles and I drove out I-84 to Boardman this week. She was talking up a storm about the 338 wind turbines ...
At least as important is WHO OWNS Oregon wind power? and where do the loyalties and profit flow?...
Not to Oregon, in fact most is owned by overseas companies and investors. As rural business and economic developers (largely volunteer) We tried to get community power into OR, as it is of great benefit in IA and MN, (funding the communities nearby to the power, and adding local jobs, EDU $$, and LT revenue benefit. Was NOT desired in Oregon ... Rights sold! and profits flow out of state.

In 20 yrs it will be interesting to see how much of this Gov subsidized (I.e. You and I funded) windpower is worn out and being dismantled as were the large Columbia Gorge wind turbines that were dismantled and sold for scrap value less than 20 yrs ago.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Priscilla Martin View Post
The way this country is going I'm glad both my husband and I are retired, live comfortably, and can afford some niceties. Being on the this end of life's timeline is fine with me.
You must be GOV retired and provided with pension and Health Care. A good % of us(A) retirees (without either) are busy looking for a new country to live in until we attain Medicare eligibility. Affordable Healthcare is anything BUT affordable for retirees. (and most others that are not already on GOV aid).
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Old 08-26-2013, 01:22 AM
 
Location: Myrtle Creek, Oregon
15,296 posts, read 14,706,525 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Pickering View Post
How can you make that claim. That last night picture is a work of art.
Yeah, but the only scenic thing is the windmills.
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Old 08-26-2013, 01:30 AM
 
Location: Myrtle Creek, Oregon
15,296 posts, read 14,706,525 times
Reputation: 25017
Quote:
Originally Posted by StealthRabbit View Post
At least as important is WHO OWNS Oregon wind power? and where do the loyalties and profit flow?...
Not to Oregon, in fact most is owned by overseas companies and investors. As rural business and economic developers (largely volunteer) We tried to get community power into OR, as it is of great benefit in IA and MN, (funding the communities nearby to the power, and adding local jobs, EDU $$, and LT revenue benefit. Was NOT desired in Oregon ... Rights sold! and profits flow out of state.
How do you figure that? The site lease is good for about 4% of the gross value of the power generated, which is a big bundle of cash flowing into the state. The wind farms also pay property taxes, greatly improving the tax base of local rural governments. Wherever the profits go, they leave a big bundle of cash right here at home first.
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