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Old 01-16-2015, 01:03 PM
 
Location: Salem, OR
15,495 posts, read 40,198,114 times
Reputation: 17353

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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrwibble View Post
For $199 you can go here, Online Emotional Support Animal Approval & Prescriptions, and get a signed doctor's letter for your "emotional support" animal. I believe that the infamous flying pig owner used a service like this.
That's why I would chat with my attorney and confirm that I could require a psychiatrist or mental health therapist to write the letter. The tenant has to provide documentation that it is a need. I think it would stand up in court that a letter from this site doesn't meet the requirements for a need.
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Old 01-16-2015, 01:21 PM
 
Location: Salem, OR
15,495 posts, read 40,198,114 times
Reputation: 17353
Quote:
Originally Posted by hawaiian by heart View Post

Is the real issue tenents having rights to own animals? or that they be responsible with there animals?
The issue is that they be responsible with their animals. Landlords that don't allow pets know that some owners are great with pets and others should be banned from owning them. They don't want to deal with trying to figure out what type of owner they have in front of them so they say no to all of them.

The issue with service dogs/pets is getting some long needed clarification on what that means for fair housing. The ADA clarified them in 2011, I think. There are studies which show that people with pets can benefit greatly by having that pet when they are depressed. Dogs can help with seizure detection, diabetes issues and many other things where the body gives off subtle signs that something bad is about to happen that a person might not pick up on. These animals are attuned to that person, and not trained in the way that a seeing eye dog is, for example.

I would prefer that the clarification be written in such a way that the letter has to come from a medical professional that has a medical history of caring for the patient to minimize the scams, rather than a rent a doc. Someone seeing a therapist or psychiatrist is at least getting treatment while they need their pet. Someone that has seen a doctor/specialist for a while would minimize scammers.

There isn't any legal precedence on this yet, I don't think. I do think that it will create a much tighter rental market as some landlords will just sell their properties and move on.
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Old 01-16-2015, 01:25 PM
 
Location: Seal Rock
431 posts, read 596,779 times
Reputation: 806
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silverfall View Post
That's why I would chat with my attorney and confirm that I could require a psychiatrist or mental health therapist to write the letter. The tenant has to provide documentation that it is a need. I think it would stand up in court that a letter from this site doesn't meet the requirements for a need.
From the site;

Is The DOGtor a licensed Medical Professional? Absolutely! Yes, our network of evaluating practitioners are either licensed medical doctors or licensed clinical psychotherapists.


We've had a lot of trouble with "suspect" emotional support and therapy animals where I work. The lgal advice we got was if the letter or certification has been signed by an accredited doctor or therapist, there's nothing we can do about it.

From a personal perspective, we are moving home in the spring/summer. We were considering renting our current property rather than selling it. After bad experiences with badly behaved pets at other properties, this is probably going to tip our hand to selling.
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Old 01-16-2015, 01:38 PM
 
Location: Salem, OR
15,495 posts, read 40,198,114 times
Reputation: 17353
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrwibble View Post
From the site;

Is The DOGtor a licensed Medical Professional? Absolutely! Yes, our network of evaluating practitioners are either licensed medical doctors or licensed clinical psychotherapists.


We've had a lot of trouble with "suspect" emotional support and therapy animals where I work. The lgal advice we got was if the letter or certification has been signed by an accredited doctor or therapist, there's nothing we can do about it.

From a personal perspective, we are moving home in the spring/summer. We were considering renting our current property rather than selling it. After bad experiences with badly behaved pets at other properties, this is probably going to tip our hand to selling.
There might have to be a court case, but I would still talk with an attorney to confirm that you can require a letter from an Oregon licensed medical professional. I think you can have a policy like that, I just think it needs to be upfront and consistently applied to all applicants.
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Old 01-16-2015, 01:39 PM
 
989 posts, read 1,509,210 times
Reputation: 1608
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silverfall View Post
The issue is that they be responsible with their animals. Landlords that don't allow pets know that some owners are great with pets and others should be banned from owning them. They don't want to deal with trying to figure out what type of owner they have in front of them so they say no to all of them.

The issue with service dogs/pets is getting some long needed clarification on what that means for fair housing. The ADA clarified them in 2011, I think. There are studies which show that people with pets can benefit greatly by having that pet when they are depressed. Dogs can help with seizure detection, diabetes issues and many other things where the body gives off subtle signs that something bad is about to happen that a person might not pick up on. These animals are attuned to that person, and not trained in the way that a seeing eye dog is, for example.

I would prefer that the clarification be written in such a way that the letter has to come from a medical professional that has a medical history of caring for the patient to minimize the scams, rather than a rent a doc. Someone seeing a therapist or psychiatrist is at least getting treatment while they need their pet. Someone that has seen a doctor/specialist for a while would minimize scammers.

There isn't any legal precedence on this yet, I don't think. I do think that it will create a much tighter rental market as some landlords will just sell their properties and move on.
You are getting into HIPAA privacy laws, no landlord is going to get away with making their tenant disclose health conditions.
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Old 01-16-2015, 02:06 PM
 
Location: Salem, OR
15,495 posts, read 40,198,114 times
Reputation: 17353
Quote:
Originally Posted by gray horse View Post
You are getting into HIPAA privacy laws, no landlord is going to get away with making their tenant disclose health conditions.
Not at all. All the letter states is that in their medical opinion, the tenant has a medical condition that requires they have a service animal to function. Remember, these are working animals. The medical professional needs to certify that the tenant needs a working animal to assist them with their disability that impacts/limits more than one major life activity. If someone says "I need a service animal for my anxiety," then it would be appropriate to ask for their mental health provider to give you the letter. I'm not suggesting that you ask people what their disability is. I think you will find most people will tell you upfront when it isn't obvious.

I think you all are overestimating the number of medical professionals willing to put that in writing. Landlords talk to each other and if there is a local doctor handing out letters willy nilly, I could see a complaint being filed against the doctor. I think that would be a fraudulent on their part.

Service dogs are doing amazing things with our PTSD vets, and for any legitimate tenant that needs a service animal there will be a local medical professional working with them that can craft a letter. I bet if you talk with an attorney, you can require that the letter come from an Oregon licensed medical professional, as long as you state your policy upfront. There is a balance in there of helping to support tenants that genuinely need that support vs. being scammed by rent a doc kind of tenants. It will, unfortunately, take some lawsuits to figure out where that balance is.
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Old 01-16-2015, 02:07 PM
 
4,059 posts, read 5,587,428 times
Reputation: 2892
Quote:
Originally Posted by gray horse View Post
You are getting into HIPAA privacy laws, no landlord is going to get away with making their tenant disclose health conditions.
I'm curious if you actually work with HIPAA directly, since that's not quite my understanding of how it works.

HIPAA limits the ability of the provider to release info without the patient's consent - it's still (broadly speaking) kosher for a 3rd party to require certain disclosures as a condition of whatever their business is, albeit with some restrictions, thus how employers can operate drug testing, etc.

In my business we end up requiring disclosures from doctors not infrequently, we just can't obtain the information without the patient's consent. If they don't want to consent, that's certainly within their rights, albeit it may limit what I can do for them.
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Old 01-16-2015, 02:18 PM
 
26,486 posts, read 36,338,220 times
Reputation: 29543
This provides a list of organizations that provide false documentation:

Service Dog Certification -- Spotting Fake Certification/Registration/ID | Service Dog Central

As far asking questions of prospective tenants, you're limited by Federal law on what you can ask.
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Old 01-16-2015, 02:33 PM
 
Location: Portland, OR
9,858 posts, read 11,871,805 times
Reputation: 10027
Unless I way miss my guess, I doubt the landlords posting in this thread have been doing low income renters any favors over the years. As usual they see the scam potential in every regulation proposed in the name of Fair Housing. What does "low income" even have to do with it? I am not low income but I have pets. A recent property manager actually told us about the companion animal exception because she wanted us to be able to rent a vacancy. The place we have now was listed as no pets. As it happens the cat we have now was obtained mainly as company for an older cat that died this year. We could have re-homed him with minimal guilt and so we looked at this rental and liked it. Just for grins I mentioned the cat and after a few hours deliberation we got the go ahead, with a deposit, of course.

Why not triple the rent and select from the cream of millenial tech savants that are entering the 3% above market rent sectors? Is it because you can't? Because no one will pay that kind of rent to live in your one of a kind palatial suites? I am insulted on behalf of working class renters who want to pay a fair rent for what is offered in the way of neighborhood environment, fit and finish of the premises and customer service.

Maybe its best that some of you sell off and do something else less risky with your housing bubble equity. I doubt huge numbers of renters are going to crash the rental market by destroying housing stock left and right with out of control Pit Bulls waltzed in past the frustrated gaze of furious but helpless to prevent it, landlords.

I haven't seen this much alarmist nonsense in... ... ever. WTH. The sky is falling...
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Old 01-16-2015, 02:35 PM
 
26,486 posts, read 36,338,220 times
Reputation: 29543
By the way, I'm not sure that this is some new thing that has recently become "effective immediately." Hasn't it been around for awhile?

It appears the sky may well be falling. I actually agree with Leiseturm about something.
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