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This is certainly not the first school shooting in the area. Some perhaps will remember the Thurston HS shootings in 1998 in Springfield where several died, and many more injured in an area just 100 miles north.
However, just because two incidents occured within this space, doesn't mean it is more dangerous. Random acts like this will occur throughout the country unfortunately.
What can we do? I have an opinion that we need higher armed security, but this is not popular with Oregonians. So, do what you will, and I guess we shall see the result.
Members of the Associated Press are required to follow certain protocol concerning releasing info to the public. They gave you the name of the killer shortly after LE released it them. The sheriff's personal decision not to speak the name aloud was certainly his call to make, but it didn't negate the public's right to know.
Why does "the public" need to know the name in a case such as this, or really that it happened at all?
The way I see situations such as what this nutcase did is while it's very relevant to those that live in the area/state unless it's a terror connected attack there's no real reason to blast it world wide by the AP or any other "news" agency (except to garner ratings and money). It's the old saw "if it bleeds it leads" sensationalist reporting which gives these types exactly what they were aiming for. Either way there is NO real reason that the public "needs to know" the name of the perp.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Caldwell
Yes, the school has a lockdown procedure. The shooter only survived the start of the incident by 9 minutes, thanks to immediate response by Douglas County Sheriff deputies. I have been through the Citizen Police Academy with some of the local officers, and you do not want to get into a shootout with them. Pinpoint accuracy with a handgun is very difficult to achieve, but they manage it. All patrol cars are also equipped with real assault rifles that include select fire and full automatic. Two officers entered the building and put the shooter down in seconds.
Thankfully the response to such incidents has radically changed from the Columbine days where they'd wait outside until contained and heavy weapons arrived allowing the shooter to kill massive amounts of people unchallenged. I'd guess back then those cops were going crazy listening to what was going on and chomping at the bit to go in and end those two loons.
Nowadays that's EXACTLY what they do, and whomever the two were that went in the other day did their job very well.
Why does "the public" need to know the name in a case such as this, or really that it happened at all?
The way I see situations such as what this nutcase did is while it's very relevant to those that live in the area/state unless it's a terror connected attack there's no real reason to blast it world wide by the AP or any other "news" agency (except to garner ratings and money). It's the old saw "if it bleeds it leads" sensationalist reporting which gives these types exactly what they were aiming for. Either way there is NO real reason that the public "needs to know" the name of the perp.
I'm not interested in getting into a debate with you about this. I was only explaining to someone else that the Associated Press requires that certain protocol is followed. If you disagree with this, take it up with the AP. But I'll say this:
Part of the reason for naming the perp (who is dead, anyway, as they usually are after these things, so the whole notoriety thing falls flat) is to prevent wrongful speculation. Without professional news sources, you'd have -- Facebook. And if you think that the "perp's" name wouldn't have been plastered all over Facebook whether or not an AP source named him, you're naive. But speculation would have been made concerning other people, (it's Facebook, after all), putting those people and their families in danger. Something like that happened with the Boston bombing incident. That person's family was actually receiving death threats, with several Facebook groups leading the charge, until the AP officially named the suspects and stopped the cloak and dagger nonsense. The AP might not be perfect, but it's better than letting social media serve as "news."
Last edited by Metlakatla; 10-03-2015 at 11:39 AM..
Why does "the public" need to know the name in a case such as this, or really that it happened at all?
The way I see situations such as what this nutcase did is while it's very relevant to those that live in the area/state unless it's a terror connected attack there's no real reason to blast it world wide by the AP or any other "news" agency (except to garner ratings and money). It's the old saw "if it bleeds it leads" sensationalist reporting which gives these types exactly what they were aiming for. Either way there is NO real reason that the public "needs to know" the name of the perp.
Thankfully the response to such incidents has radically changed from the Columbine days where they'd wait outside until contained and heavy weapons arrived allowing the shooter to kill massive amounts of people unchallenged. I'd guess back then those cops were going crazy listening to what was going on and chomping at the bit to go in and end those two loons.
Nowadays that's EXACTLY what they do, and whomever the two were that went in the other day did their job very well.
I agree with your post, jimj. No reason the name of the shooter needs national attention, when there is no threat to residents in other states or regions of the country. I think the names of heroes who risked their lives and safety to protect others do need to be released. I was happy to see the GoFundMe account rapidly increase for Chris Mintz. His actions deserve our time, comments and attention. I hoped when I saw it yesterday that account would reach $500K. Checking it now, it has surpassed $600K. ( https://www.gofundme.com/s75ge9y4). This brave, 30 y.o. army veteran saved countless others as he confronted the shooter and was shot seven times while others ran to safety.
Unfortunately, Columbine happened. The good from Columbine has been in how law enforcement has trained to respond quickly and end the threat at the Community College. The two officers first on the scene knew what to do. I agree with you, I believe those two officers did their job very well! But, do we know their names or even their agency? I think they were from the Douglas County Sheriff's Office; however, I'm not certain. There isn't a lot of info about them, which is okay with me, as I've heard the Sheriff's plea to focus on the survivors and the families who lost loved ones.
In the internet world of instant information, sometimes I think people search to understand something about the tragedy to make sense of the insane actions of someone so they feel safe in their environment.
I'm not interested in getting into a debate with you about this. I was only explaining to someone else that the Associated Press requires that certain protocol is followed. If you disagree with this, take it up with the AP. But I'll say this:
Part of the reason for naming the perp (who is dead, anyway, as they usually are after these things, so the whole notoriety thing falls flat) is to prevent wrongful speculation. Without professional news sources, you'd have -- Facebook. And if you think that the "perp's" name wouldn't have been plastered all over Facebook whether or not an AP source named him, you're naive. But speculation would have been made concerning other people, (it's Facebook, after all), putting those people and their families in danger. Something like that happened with the Boston bombing incident. That person's family was actually receiving death threats, with several Facebook groups leading the charge, until the AP officially named the suspects and stopped the cloak and dagger nonsense. The AP might not be perfect, but it's better than letting social media serve as "news."
Metlakatla, You make a fair point, IMO. There certainly can be speculation about innocent people and whether others helped one person prepare to murder.
I think there has to be room for a compromise. I like how most cable news services mention the name limited times in the initial hours and encourage viewers to access their website for additional information. Two days out, I'm not sure the news needs to lead with the shooter's name at every news update.
Metlakatla, You make a fair point, IMO. There certainly can be speculation about innocent people and whether others helped one person prepare to murder.
I think there has to be room for a compromise. I like how most cable news services mention the name limited times in the initial hours and encourage viewers to access their website for additional information. Two days out, I'm not sure the news needs to lead with the shooter's name at every news update.
MSR
If this guy hadn't been named, there would now be all manner of yelping all over Facebook speculating about the identity of the shooter. He was so new to the school and so unknown that it wouldn't have been common-but-unspoken knowledge...it's likely that no one in the community would have even missed his absence except his mom. His name would have surfaced eventually, but a lot of other names probably would have as well. In that kind of extremely emotionally charged environment....well...
after something (like the shooter's name) goes out on the AP wire, it's up to the news stations to use that information as they see fit. If they're repeating the name over and over, it's because they're gaining ratings by doing so. This is something that the general public has a great deal of control over. Don't like it? Neither do I. Vote with your remote. The media some of you want to blame is nothing more than society's reflection in the mirror.
I'm pretty sure, though, that even if there were some way to keep the names of these shooters out of the realm of public knowledge, they'd still occur. That's just a feel-good bandaide that doesn't even have any sticky stuff. As far as the "public's right to know," take it up with the U.S. Constitution.
OK, but this thread is not about the federal legalization of marijuana, it's about the UCC shooting. Can we get back to the point?
This shooting has more to do with gun access and mental illness than anything else. I am not going to blame one more than the other. However, there are some very true indicators here that blame both sides. Gun access should not be denied, but only if and when the buyer is legally eligible to buy. That being said, what is legally eligable to buy mean? This is where we need sharper laws.
Here is one opinion on the favor of sharper gun laws. If anyone remembers Kip Kinkle, the boy who killed his parents and then went on a shooting rampage at his high school in 1998 in Springfield OR, he was undergoing psychiatric care all his life. I know someone who knew the family very well who said this at the time of the tragedy.
No one can predict when these powder kegs will go off or if they will go off. The only way to keep everyone safe is to keep the guns out of their hands.
The following statement is MY opinion, and MY opinion only:
"Good and Evil will always exist in the world .... Light against Darkness. Until it is ended ... and it will be one day."
Also, just a suggestion on protection in the schools and colleges:
Why not use Dogs, Dogs and more Dogs? Guard Dogs - German Shepherds, Rottweilers, Dobermans, etc? They can be trained to attack the "gun" and "hand/arm" that holds the guns. They're quick to act, and won't let go no matter what, even if they're shot.
Your thoughts?
Edited to add: If they're good enough to protect the White House: why not our schools and colleges?
You really have to give a tremendous amount of credit, to all those involved in dealing with this awful tragedy. The police, EMT's, all the Medical workers, and hospitals. Everyone involved. Everything involved with such a tragedy, was done very quickly and professionally. For a small community and populated area to pull together so quickly was amazing. Obviously that quick acting response, stopped that murderer from killing more innocent people I think all I mentioned is very noticeable to millions watching TV worldwide.
I just wish America as a whole would finally sit down, and deal with all these constant shootings. Shootings that have consumed the USA, and absolutely nothing is being done about them. I'm almost afraid to turn on the TV to listen to the news anymore. Hoping I will not hear another one is in progress.
My condolences to everyone and I just wish beyond words, that all these constant shootings would just stop.
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Either way there is NO real reason that the public "needs to know" the name of the perp.
