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Old 12-17-2020, 12:33 PM
 
2,852 posts, read 1,484,697 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloudy Dayz View Post
I don't necessarily disagree. My point with that post was that if I thought access to a good public library system was important to me, I would not be living in rural Oregon. Honestly I think libraries in rural areas are a waste of money at this point. No matter how much money is spent on rural libraries, they will never have a good selection of books. Plus I'm not sure it's really that important anymore. These days most all books can be read online, for a nominal cost, that most everyone should be able to afford.

Libraries have certainly served their purpose, but I don't see a future for them. I don't think Oregon should spend any more money on libraries. Maybe the money could instead be used to subsidize internet access and Amazon Kindles for people who can't afford them. I think that would be a better use of the money.

I hope I die before your dystopic future comes to pass. There's a lot more involved with going to the library than just books. For one it gets kids off of their Type II diabetic asses.



As for the internet educating people better than books...








They have this thing called interlibrary loan too. A rural library with 5000 books has access to millions of books. Remember when people got to wait for good things, and enjoyed the anticipation? I know, how quaint, that someone should get up and walk a few blocks when they can have the instant gratification of the internet...
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Old 12-17-2020, 02:30 PM
 
Location: Portland OR
2,089 posts, read 3,069,046 times
Reputation: 3256
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silverfall View Post
Rural internet access is shameful in the US.
As compared to what?
Europe? Where "rural" is defined as 2 km beyond a town border.

USA has lot's of rural acreage - If few to no people are there, what is incentive to spend resources adding internet into every nook and cranny?

Gotta love first world problems.
Now internet is a "right"
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Old 12-17-2020, 02:47 PM
 
Location: WA
4,079 posts, read 5,174,740 times
Reputation: 5411
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccjarider View Post
As compared to what?
Europe? Where "rural" is defined as 2 km beyond a town border.

USA has lot's of rural acreage - If few to no people are there, what is incentive to spend resources adding internet into every nook and cranny?

Gotta love first world problems.
Now internet is a "right"
Try applying for a job, attending public school during a pandemic, applying for unemployment, buying health insurance, applying for college, or any of a thousand different other tasks without having internet access.

Do we just write off the kids who, through no fault of their own, happen to live more than 2 km outside the town borders?
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Old 12-17-2020, 02:58 PM
 
Location: Oregon, formerly Texas
7,134 posts, read 4,712,771 times
Reputation: 12202
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloudy Dayz View Post
That gets back to my second point. Most all books can be read online, for a price most everyone can afford. So why is it so important for anybody of any age to have access to a good library? It's never been a better time for a kid to grow up in a small town. I grew up in a small town in the Midwest. We had no real school library. We did have small classroom libraries which consisted of a few hundred books on a shelve chosen for each grade level. The towns public library was one small room in the basement of the community center, which had a couple thousand books and maybe that many more on the bookmobile. I had access to maybe 5,000 library books at most. Any kid today, no matter where they live, with a Kindle and a good internet connection, has access to millions of books.

Libraries are just old way thinking. Internet is what educates and informs adults and kids today, not libraries. That said, I do think school libraries are one place where it makes sense to spend some money. But public libraries are a waste of money IMHO. I haven't been in a public library in over 10 years, but from what I hear these days libraries are nothing but a place for homeless people to hang out in the daytime. Which is another problem, that maybe some of the money that could be saved from closing libraries could be directed towards.

This is an old commercial but still a good one.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_sXmRae8Lk
I hear the "libraries are nothing but a place for homeless people to hang out" critique every time there's a library bond. Yeah, when I used to go to the library, especially in larger urban areas, I'd usually see, and sometimes smell, some homeless people in there.

You know what they were doing? Reading a book! Quietly and not bothering anyone. What's the problem with that? If anything I find it shameful that our homeless people can read at all! THAT says something about our society for sure, because clearly, if they can read and write, the lack of basic education is not responsible for their poverty.

If there's anything I've learned from 2020, it's the psychological importance of shared, communal, and public spaces. The loss of those spaces has been extremely damaging to the human race in my opinion. The internet does not replace the spaces people go to have a shared experience, whether it's a public lecture, concert, classroom, coffee shop, whatever.

The internet is a great tool to supplement our experiences. Not replace them.
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Old 12-17-2020, 03:10 PM
 
Location: Oregon Coast
9,128 posts, read 3,838,074 times
Reputation: 12278
Quote:
Originally Posted by StealthRabbit View Post
Wow, you live rural and have access to the internet!

You are definitely privileged!


I have found far better rural internet access in most foreign countries I have lived and worked, than in USA. Interesting that in Northern UK, the rural communities were supplied fiber by co-ops similar to how the rural USA was 'wired' in the 1930's and 40's via REA's. I guess we've 'advanced' too much for that (Now forced into 'Commercially viable'). Which will NEVER be the case for those of us surviving inside the CGNSA. The "Friends of the Gorge" will assure that! Fiber is 200' from my front door, but inaccessible to me (only used for 'empty' libraries and 'incompetent but well funded' schools) Need Commerce (or email / bank access) ? Must move to town.
That's why I would propose that we stop wasting money on obsolete 18th Century libraries, and redirect those funds toward getting everybody connected with 21st Century high speed internet.

As for my internet. I have a Charter Spectrum 115 mbps cable connection. There is also a fiber-optic system in my area, but it doesn't serve my apartment complex. The fiber system here is a little weird. When I moved here it sounded like I would be able to get service from them soon. There were lots of news articles about them expanding in my area. But as of now, the last news article I can find about the company is from 2014. Their website and social media have gone black. If I Google for information about the company it redirects me to another company about 100 miles away. Their website list fiber service and speeds exactly equal to the price and speed I get from Charter. So I have no idea what is going on with fiber in this area, but I guess that they are not doing too well, with speeds and prices exactly equal to that of the cable internet that is already in operation here.
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Old 12-17-2020, 05:42 PM
 
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
27,076 posts, read 45,168,934 times
Reputation: 31268
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloudy Dayz View Post
That's why I would propose that we stop wasting money on obsolete 18th Century libraries, and redirect those funds toward getting everybody connected with 21st Century high speed internet.

As for my internet. I have ... apartment complex....
You sound real rural?

Lack of Internet access is a real PITA during a pandemic (Libraries and cafes closed, and the usual friends that would let you come over for a couple hours / week to balance your checkbook and trade stocks are usually older and at higher risk of Covid.)

this ... is a real and significant problem addressing a few major risks to:
Decline of Rural Oregon and much of USA.

Fortunately the powers to be, felt differently in the 1930s, or we would still be milking cows by hand, or outsourced dairy to Mexico / SA and USA would all be drinking the 'boxed milk' that much of the world is forced to use. (Not cheap)
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Old 12-17-2020, 06:07 PM
 
Location: Oregon Coast
9,128 posts, read 3,838,074 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StealthRabbit View Post
You sound real rural?

Lack of Internet access is a real PITA during a pandemic (Libraries and cafes closed, and the usual friends that would let you come over for a couple hours / week to balance your checkbook and trade stocks are usually older and at higher risk of Covid.)

this ... is a real and significant problem addressing a few major risks to:
Decline of Rural Oregon and much of USA.

Fortunately the powers to be, felt differently in the 1930s, or we would still be milking cows by hand, or outsourced dairy to Mexico / SA and USA would all be drinking the 'boxed milk' that much of the world is forced to use. (Not cheap)
I'm not exactly sure what you are getting at. But if you are surprised that I live in an apartment complex in a rural area, I think you are more out of touch with rural areas, then I am. My apartment is provided by USDA Rural Development.

Anyway I was acknowledging your problem, and suggesting that we should be focusing on getting you high speed internet, rather then wasting money on obsolete libraries.
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Old 12-17-2020, 06:20 PM
 
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
27,076 posts, read 45,168,934 times
Reputation: 31268
Rural often means no neighbors for many miles, tho I do work PT for USDA RD and have enabled subsidized apartments in some rural towns in WA and OR.

I also use Libraries (a lot), tho not like when living in Singapore and you had to take a number and wait outside for a seat to become vacant. USA libraries have usually been 'sleepers'. I am in a fight with my local library at the moment, as they limit Covid hours to noon - 4 PM (And our schools are in session and no business lockdowns, so... the only people who can use the libraries are those who are free during the day (Homeless and homeschoolers). Really quite ridiculous that a place with lights is only open during daylight. Farmers, schoolkids, day workers do not have a chance to use library.
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Old 12-18-2020, 03:40 PM
 
Location: Myrtle Creek, Oregon
15,296 posts, read 14,706,525 times
Reputation: 25017
Quote:
Originally Posted by StealthRabbit View Post
Wow, you live rural and have access to the internet!

You are definitely privileged!


I have found far better rural internet access in most foreign countries I have lived and worked, than in USA. Interesting that in Northern UK, the rural communities were supplied fiber by co-ops similar to how the rural USA was 'wired' in the 1930's and 40's via REA's. I guess we've 'advanced' too much for that (Now forced into 'Commercially viable'). Which will NEVER be the case for those of us surviving inside the CGNSA. The "Friends of the Gorge" will assure that! Fiber is 200' from my front door, but inaccessible to me (only used for 'empty' libraries and 'incompetent but well funded' schools) Need Commerce (or email / bank access) ? Must move to town.
If you can afford internet access you are privileged no matter where you live. Many people can not. If you can afford a smart phone, you are privileged. Many people can not.

The argument against libraries seems to be that they should close because poor people use them.
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Old 12-19-2020, 12:59 PM
 
Location: Oregon Coast
9,128 posts, read 3,838,074 times
Reputation: 12278
Quote:
Originally Posted by StealthRabbit View Post
Rural often means no neighbors for many miles, tho I do work PT for USDA RD and have enabled subsidized apartments in some rural towns in WA and OR.

I also use Libraries (a lot), tho not like when living in Singapore and you had to take a number and wait outside for a seat to become vacant. USA libraries have usually been 'sleepers'. I am in a fight with my local library at the moment, as they limit Covid hours to noon - 4 PM (And our schools are in session and no business lockdowns, so... the only people who can use the libraries are those who are free during the day (Homeless and homeschoolers). Really quite ridiculous that a place with lights is only open during daylight. Farmers, schoolkids, day workers do not have a chance to use library.
The U.S. Census Bureau considers that I live in a rural area. That is good enough for me.



urbanrural_450px (1)

Last edited by Cloudy Dayz; 12-19-2020 at 01:11 PM..
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