Some crazy new laws for 2020. (Sandy, Cove: home, buying, disposal)

[Larry Caldwell]

I use cardboard boxes. Right now I have an Amazon shipping box that fits down in the cart basket, and a longer, wider, but shallower produce box that sits on top of it. I can haul along a couple paper bags to use if needed.

[Lieneke]

Originally Posted by sylentvoyce

Unfortunately it will probably be the cars fault. Pedestrians and bicyclists will always have the right of way.

Once enough of these accidents happen the next step will be even lower speed limits and more aggressive enforcement on drivers. There will be no walking back the bikers freedoms. The hate for cars is alive and well.

I think you are right, but it could lead to some serious litigation when the cyclist has a stop sign, the driver doesn't, but the cyclist is allowed to run the stop sign. I'm a cyclist and I'm all for safe cycling, so I'm 100% in favor of everyone abiding by the same traffic signs and laws.

It's like pedestrians and cyclists. Pedestrians see a cyclist, and still they step in front of the cyclist because they miscalculate how fast the cyclist is moving. Cyclists make the same mistake, or they simply don't see the car, because it's not yet in view when they enter the intersection.

[Larry Caldwell]

Originally Posted by Lieneke

I think you are right, but it could lead to some serious litigation when the cyclist has a stop sign, the driver doesn't, but the cyclist is allowed to run the stop sign. I'm a cyclist and I'm all for safe cycling, so I'm 100% in favor of everyone abiding by the same traffic signs and laws.

It's like pedestrians and cyclists. Pedestrians see a cyclist, and still they step in front of the cyclist because they miscalculate how fast the cyclist is moving. Cyclists make the same mistake, or they simply don't see the car, because it's not yet in view when they enter the intersection.

It's a yield sign. It's up the cyclist to yield the right of way.

I'm not fond of cyclists. I got run down by one on a sidewalk once. He was freewheeling downhill at about 20 mph and didn't even call out to warn me. I never saw him coming. I have also been cursed at by a cyclist for turning in front of him when I had the right of way.

If they won't follow traffic laws, that's on them.

[Larry Caldwell]

Don't forget to buy your rowboat license.

https://thatoregonlife.com/2019/12/f...5Yoef4b57nBJY8

[Lieneke]

Originally Posted by Larry Caldwell

It's a yield sign. It's up the cyclist to yield the right of way.

I'm not fond of cyclists. I got run down by one on a sidewalk once. He was freewheeling downhill at about 20 mph and didn't even call out to warn me. I never saw him coming. I have also been cursed at by a cyclist for turning in front of him when I had the right of way.

If they won't follow traffic laws, that's on them.

I cycle to work when weather permits and pedestrians are notorious for stepping in front of cyclists - I have no idea what they're thinking, but they seem oblivious to the fact that cyclists cannot instantly stop and they can't always manoeuvre around someone.

Indeed cyclists should now view a "stop" as a "yield", which means that cyclists are going to glance in the direction of oncoming traffic rather than stop and look. I think it is a mistake.

[Cloudy Dayz]

Originally Posted by PNW-type-gal

The general idea of the bag ban is to get you to bring your own bags. I have some sturdy, washable bags with a folding, reinforced bottom that I like for groceries and then I have a couple washable canvas bags for meat only. I carry one of those fold-up nylon bags (folds into the size of about two decks of cards) clipped to the outside of my purse or sitting in the cup holder in the car.

I belonged to a group that sometimes did roadside cleanup and, other than beer cans, the really thin plastic bags were probably the most common bit of litter. IF this cuts down on that problem, it'd be great.

I still have the habit, developed when I lived way out of town and did a single grocery run for a longer period, of putting food on the conveyor in the order I want it packed in the bags (all fresh together, all meat together, all frozen together)

Okay here is my problem. For financial reasons, I'm going to continue using my bags for trash bags. I'm not going to start buying trash bags. But even if I did, then I would just be consuming more plastic for trash bags. So this picture shows how much my plastic consumption is going to increase by, directly as a result of this law. I suspect I will not be the only one. So even if this reduces some people's plastic consumption, that reduction will be cancelled out by those of us who increase our plastic use, because of it. And I fail to see how these reusable bags will not also end up as litter. So I doubt we will see any reduction in litter either because of it. At best this is just going to trade one environmental problem for another. At worst it could backfire and make the problem worse.

[Cloudy Dayz]

Originally Posted by Lieneke

It is! If a cyclist runs a stop sign because a faster moving car is not yet visible, and that cyclist is injured, who is at fault?

It doesn't even matter because the driver of the car will end up paying either way. It's not like cyclists have any liability insurance to cover the damage or injuries they cause.

[Cloudy Dayz]

Originally Posted by sylentvoyce

Unfortunately it will probably be the cars fault. Pedestrians and bicyclists will always have the right of way.

Once enough of these accidents happen the next step will be even lower speed limits and more aggressive enforcement on drivers. There will be no walking back the bikers freedoms. The hate for cars is alive and well.

I think you hit the nail on the head. It's hate for cars. These laws are driven by hate. Hate of cars and drivers, and hate of plastic. There is just no logical justification for these laws.

[Lieneke]

Originally Posted by Cloudy Dayz

I think you hit the nail on the head. It's hate for cars. These laws are driven by hate. Hate of cars and drivers, and hate of plastic. There is just no logical justification for these laws.

In the beginning, people brought their cloth bags to the store to collect their groceries. Convenience led to the use of paper bags. Save the forest led to plastic bags. Save the planet led to cloth bags ... again. It is important to move away from the "disposable" mentality that has dominated consumer marketing for 50 years.

Everyone could learn something from the Dutch when it comes to managing people, bikes and vehicles at the same time. They sure don't allow cyclists to ignore traffic rules!

[Cloudy Dayz]

Originally Posted by McFrostyJ

We have been using re-useable bags for years. We dedicate one of our five to non-food items and one to meat. After using the meat one, we wipe it clean with a sanitizing wipe and let dry before putting it back in the car. We wipe all of them clean once a month. They only cost about 89 cents or maybe 99 cents now and last an extremely long time. In fact, we haven't had to replace one yet! They pay for themselves if you shop at WinCo because they take 5 cents off your bill every time you use one and for each bag you use.

We switched a long time ago because they hold a lot of stuff and are very strong. Which means less trips from the car to the house for me and that's great in bad weather. Even though we usually shop at WinCo, we prefered the bags they had at Fred Meyers at the time because of their size and shape. Not sure what the bags that WinCo currently carries are like.

Fred Meyer did have some great large bags at one time. I remember stocking up on sale items, and one clerk would always ask me if I would mind if she put my items in large bags. I agreed. She could jam a full shopping cart load of items into three large bags. It was great. She suggested that I reuse them for recycling bags, which I did. They worked great for that. Larger one use bags would make a lot of sense, and be very convenient.