Some crazy new laws for 2020. (Portland: sales, 2013, sales tax)

[Cloudy Dayz]

Originally Posted by PNW-type-gal

Yes, and if they are buried in a landfill (no light, low oxygen) a lot of the "biodegradable" things don't - or at least not quickly.

My problem with items like bags is that there is a cost, from materials to production to use to disposal/recycling. Each step has a cost, in terms of energy, water, labor, materials, pesticides, plasticizers, etc etc. Each step matters and a business using plastic bags only sees a narrow slice of the cost and externalizes all the other costs off. That's not just bags, of course, but I try to look at the bigger picture of what something "costs".

I'm not sure that is true. When you look at old dump sites, 95% of the trash can be put in three categories. 1. Glass bottles and jars. 2. Rusted old cans, 3. Pieces of metal. The other 5% include wood fragments, and shreds of plastic and cloth. The amounts of plastic is very small. Plastic trash bags won't even be recognizable. The plastic will all be in shreds.

I wish somebody would go and analyze old landfills and figure out what is really there and what is not decomposing. I'm pretty sure that plastic would not be the main problem.

Anyway, plastic should not be put in landfills. It should be 100% recycled.

[McFrostyJ]

Originally Posted by Highpointer

I am strongly opposed to any plastic bag laws. Businesses should be able to provide whatever bags that they desire that are best for their customers and business. Politicians who don't run businesses should not tell businesses how to run their businesses.

Should businesses be able to do anything they want, even if it harms our planet and future generations have to pay for it?

[ccjarider]

Originally Posted by McFrostyJ

Should businesses be able to do anything they want, even if it harms our planet and future generations have to pay for it?

Your question and thus premise assumes "harm" is actual and real. Plastic is a cost effective solution to societal need and putting waste in landfills may certainly be reasonable solution. All decisions involve trade offs of positive and negative.

There is definitely an argument that many of Oregon Gov't gov't "solutions" are just burdensome overreach, and do not solve or mitigate any "harm." In reality. we all pay and Oregon just continues it's decline so silly Oregon politicians can feel good about themselves.

[cornsnicker3]

I always thought it would be clever if the state enacted a 5 cent per some unit weight of bulk plastic, glass, and paper redemption. The homeless in Portland would basically clean the city and they would earn their keep.

[McFrostyJ]

Originally Posted by ccjarider

Your question and thus premise assumes "harm" is actual and real. Plastic is a cost effective solution to societal need and putting waste in landfills may certainly be reasonable solution. All decisions involve trade offs of positive and negative.

There is definitely an argument that many of Oregon Gov't gov't "solutions" are just burdensome overreach, and do not solve or mitigate any "harm." In reality. we all pay and Oregon just continues it's decline so silly Oregon politicians can feel good about themselves.

Oregon is not the only state to ban plastic bags. The problem is that these plastic bags easily end up in the rivers and oceans. I have seen first hand the damage they and other plastics do to our oceans. We need to start thinking about what we are leaving for future generations and this is an easy small step.

[Cloudy Dayz]

Originally Posted by McFrostyJ

Should businesses be able to do anything they want, even if it harms our planet and future generations have to pay for it?

No. I'm all for regulation of business. Especially when it comes to public safety or the environment. Which we are doing a terrible job at. We have oil pipelines leaking oil into the environment and nobody cares. We have chemical plants blowing up next to schools and nobody cares. The government can't regulate stuff like that, because it will hurt business. But the government can get involved in fixing the prices of the bags that retailers give to customers? There is nothing environmental about this law. It's just more crony capitalism. It's a windfall for businesses to charge customers for what they have been giving them for free. Tell me how making consumers pay higher prices is going to help the environment? If you want to ban plastic bags, then fine, ban plastic bags. But don't tell retailers how much to charge customers for an item. That is just way over the line, in my opinion. It's setting a really bad precedent.

[Larry Caldwell]

Originally Posted by McFrostyJ

Oregon is not the only state to ban plastic bags. The problem is that these plastic bags easily end up in the rivers and oceans. I have seen first hand the damage they and other plastics do to our oceans. We need to start thinking about what we are leaving for future generations and this is an easy small step.

Bingo. The big damage of plastic bags is to marine based wildlife. That includes waterfowl as well as fish and marine mammals. Single use bags blow around, and a lot of them end up in the water.

[ccjarider]

Originally Posted by McFrostyJ

Oregon is not the only state to ban plastic bags. The problem is that these plastic bags easily end up in the rivers and oceans. I have seen first hand the damage they and other plastics do to our oceans. We need to start thinking about what we are leaving for future generations and this is an easy small step.

There is a small handful of places that like to ban things because they think it solves problems or at least brainwash their citizenry that it does. Do you really believe Oregon, a small population, relatively desolate state makes any difference at all in the grand scheme??

I have lived all over America. There is no more or less trash in Oregon than in any other state in this country except perhaps in Portland proper where their clearly is MORE garbage strewn about the the average place. But that is likely due to insane Progressive liberal policies encouraging hobos to come here.

[SUPbud]

Californian here and just want to add my few cents on the plastic grocery bags.


(5 cents) is not standardized here in CA. Some markets charge 10 cents and some charge 20.
There is a weird tug of war where some cashiers act like the bags are made of gold leaf foil and they OVERSTUFF your bags because I imagine the early adopters blew their fuses at having to buy +1 more bags. Oh lordy you dont hesitate to buy a bottle of jack daniels and a can of cheeze whiz, but 5-10-20 cents will break the bank!



Some markets (Aldi, Food for Less) dont even bag your groceries. That's YOUR job and they push your items off to a secondary bagging area.


I prefer paper bags (still available at places like Trader Joes and Whole Foods). I reuse them just the same as plastic. I'm too cheap to buy trendy $2 canvas tote bags emblazened with Live Laugh Love slogans.

[in_newengland]

Originally Posted by SUPbud

Californian here and just want to add my few cents on the plastic grocery bags.


(5 cents) is not standardized here in CA. Some markets charge 10 cents and some charge 20.
There is a weird tug of war where some cashiers act like the bags are made of gold leaf foil and they OVERSTUFF your bags because I imagine the early adopters blew their fuses at having to buy +1 more bags. Oh lordy you dont hesitate to buy a bottle of jack daniels and a can of cheeze whiz, but 5-10-20 cents will break the bank!



Some markets (Aldi, Food for Less) dont even bag your groceries. That's YOUR job and they push your items off to a secondary bagging area.


I prefer paper bags (still available at places like Trader Joes and Whole Foods). I reuse them just the same as plastic. I'm too cheap to buy trendy $2 canvas tote bags emblazened with Live Laugh Love slogans.

Well, our tote bags are made of cloth coated with something probably and they are quilted and insulated. So they keep your groceries cold or hot, whichever you need. If we forget our bags, we can buy a paper bag for a dime and I've had to do that a few times. I use the paper bags as wastebasket liners.

Plastic pollutes the oceans and gets into the bodies of marine life. It is also made from oil, a by product of the Big Oil Industry. More pollution. Plastic bags are banned in my state and it's not a big deal.