The State fails again!

[Beer_and_Sticks]

Originally Posted by Larry Caldwell

Refusing to provide identification to a police officer is a crime. You will be arrested, hauled to the cop shop, fingerprinted and photographed.

Incorrect. You are not required to "show papers" here outside of specific scenarios. Cops need probable cause to ask for ID. If they claim probable cause, you're required to comply.

(If you're driving, that's probable cause to ask to see ID)

[texasdiver]

Originally Posted by Beer_and_Sticks

If an officer claims probable cause and asks to see your ID, it becomes a lawful order that you are required to comply with, FYI.

Listen to what you are saying. "probable cause" for what?

Probable cause means they have reason to suspect you of committing a crime. If they have probable cause to suspect you of committing a crime they can arrest and detain you regardless of whether or not you have ID, or whether or not you show it. In that eventuality, showing your ID might provide the police with the means to eliminate you as a suspect and it would be in your interest to do so. But nothing in the law requires it. And if they have probable cause to identify you as a suspect they are indeed free to detain you until your identity can be established.

Whether you choose to show ID is neither here nor there in terms of the law. But refusing to do so may force them to haul you in, fingerprint you, or use other means to determine your identity.

[Adamson865]

Oh my... I have three different people here on Ignore, but the one person's comment I can see (Mr. Beer_and_sticks) indicates this thread appears to have gone 100 miles away from the original intent!

Anyhow, returning to the original subject, it looks like the state is coming up with alternate plans. Maybe it will work this time? Good luck to y'all because I'll be turning my Oregon license in to the Arizona MVD in three weeks.

https://pamplinmedia.com/pt/9-news/4...l-id-licenses-

[Beer_and_Sticks]

Originally Posted by texasdiver

Listen to what you are saying. "probable cause" for what?

Probable cause means they have reason to suspect you of committing a crime. If they have probable cause to suspect you of committing a crime they can arrest and detain you regardless of whether or not you have ID, or whether or not you show it. In that eventuality, showing your ID might provide the police with the means to eliminate you as a suspect and it would be in your interest to do so. But nothing in the law requires it. And if they have probable cause to identify you as a suspect they are indeed free to detain you until your identity can be established.

Whether you choose to show ID is neither here nor there in terms of the law. But refusing to do so may force them to haul you in, fingerprint you, or use other means to determine your identity.

Yes, probable cause to ask you for your ID. An officer can claim anything they want and their word, in court, means more than yours because they're an officer of the court too.

If an officer has probable cause, and they ask you for ID, and you refuse, guess what. You're breaking the law (refusing a lawful order) by not producing ID.

Poof.

There's a scenario where you're required to produce ID.

What happens next? You get detained or arrested until they can determine your ID.

Even if at the end of this whole ordeal they give you the boot, free to go. You've just been part of a scenario where you were required to show ID.

[texasdiver]

Originally Posted by Beer_and_Sticks

Yes, probable cause to ask you for your ID. An officer can claim anything they want and their word, in court, means more than yours because they're an officer of the court too.

If an officer has probable cause, and they ask you for ID, and you refuse, guess what. You're breaking the law (refusing a lawful order) by not producing ID.

Poof.

There's a scenario where you're required to produce ID.

What happens next? You get detained or arrested until they can determine your ID.

Even if at the end of this whole ordeal they give you the boot, free to go. You've just been part of a scenario where you were required to show ID.

You are simply wrong. The police can't lawfully order you do anything they want. The only instance in which police can give you a lawful order to produce an ID is for a motor vehicle stop or at the scene of a motor vehicle accident if you were driving.

They can detain you for suspicion of any OTHER crime. But the failure to produce an ID is not, in itself a crime for which they can arrest and detain you absent suspicion of other crime. In other words, there has to be probable cause of something ELSE. Residents of Oregon are not even required to carry any ID except when driving.

You are saying that cops can simply lie and claim probable cause to arrest you when there is none. Which no doubt happens on occasion. But that isn't the law. I go out running and walking the dog all the time without carrying any ID and it is perfectly legal for me to do so.

Although it has never happened, if a cop stopped me when I was out walking the dog, I would be happy to identify myself, but I wouldn't be able to produce any ID because I'm not carrying any. And even without an actual ID they can easily pull my name up on their patrol-car computer and see my driver's license picture and any criminal record I might have. So actually carrying an ID doesn't really even do much if you are willing to identify yourself. And if they were looking for some suspect in my area who matched my description and I refused to identify myself (whether or not I was actually carrying ID) then it would be within their rights to detain me until they could establish my identity.

One thing that is an actual crime is to falsely identify yourself. If you give them a false name they can arrest and prosecute you for that.

[Beer_and_Sticks]

Originally Posted by texasdiver

You are simply wrong.

It wouldn't be the first time. I defer to you, my friend.

[kaceyellis]

Originally Posted by Cloudy Dayz

I believe #2 and #3 are already being done. #1 could have bad effects. Oregon licenses are good eight years.

Auto renewing them could allow a legally blind person to have a driver's license for eight years. Even the way it is now, they could have a license for eight years after they lose their sight. Auto-renewing the license would increase that to 16 years. At that point you might as well just not have a vision requirement.

The other issue would be with pictures on licenses. If the DMV auto-renews licenses without taking a new picture it would lead awkward to situations such as a 32 year old having license picture taken when they were 16. I remember a cop in California telling me that I looked nothing like the picture on my license. I told him, well, that is what I looked like eight years ago. For the record when my picture was taken, I looked probably about 10 years younger then my actual age. When the cop saw me, I was showing my age, and my hair color had changed from blond to grey. So the cop was looking at someone who looked almost 20 years older then the picture on their license.

I don't think auto-renewing is going to be an option.

Have you ever seen... I want to say... Arizona licenses?? I remember needing to check one for ID purposes... it was an old lady standing in front of me and the picture was of a teenager. I did a double take LOL

[kaceyellis]

Originally Posted by Cloudy Dayz

1. No Oregon Driver's Licenses currently being issued are Real ID compliant. 2. There are no plans for all new Oregon Driver's Licenses to be Real ID compliant.

I think we have until October 2021 to get a Real ID

[kaceyellis]

Originally Posted by Beer_and_Sticks

If an officer claims probable cause and asks to see your ID, it becomes a lawful order that you are required to comply with, FYI.

Emmm nope. My son doesnt drive. He doesnt have any ID except maybe an old school ID. There is no law that states you have to show a cop your ID if youre not operating a motor vehicle. Those laws went out with Slavery.

[kaceyellis]

Originally Posted by texasdiver

I don't know what is going on, but they should:

1. auto-renew every license etc. that is due to expire in the next 12 months
2. shift as many services as possible online
3. save in-person DMV visits for issues that absolutely cannot be dealt with online.

Here in WA my daughter recently got her driver's licence without ever darkening the doorway of the DMV. All those tasks were farmed out and delegated to her private driving school, including the testing.

Well - so now to renew your car registration... you can do it online. BUT if you have to DEQ, you can take it to 3rd party places (jiffylube is one I remember) - BUT they charge you an extra amount to do it.. so now the DEQ goes from $25 up to $45 PLUS registration. What a crock!