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Hi there. If you're able to WFH and you have to live in the burbs, which side would be your preference? I'm asking because the Washington side has no state income tax, so would there be any reason to prefer the Oregon burbs? Parameters:
*Good schools
*Left leaning, not alt-left but definitely not alt-right
*Let's call the housing budget 600k
That's about it.
If state income tax is 10%, that's 10k on a 100k salary, 20k on a 200k, etc. That's a lot of rent.
Hi there. If you're able to WFH and you have to live in the burbs, which side would be your preference? I'm asking because the Washington side has no state income tax, so would there be any reason to prefer the Oregon burbs? Parameters:
*Good schools
*Left leaning, not alt-left but definitely not alt-right
*Let's call the housing budget 600k
That's about it.
If state income tax is 10%, that's 10k on a 100k salary, 20k on a 200k, etc. That's a lot of rent.
We had the same decision to make. Basically, you need to visit both to see what neighborhoods you like for your family. Then perform a compare/contrast. Assuming you kind find a similar amenities in both which we did, the WA wins for financial reasons alone. Then there are other less immediate preferences which everyone has based on personal hobbies, interested, etc... WA checked all those boxes for us. Lastly, there is something to be said for having enough separation from PDX all the craziness going on while still having access the good parts of Portland. Vancouver is close enough to easier jump over and catch a flight, head over to the Japanese Gardens, catch a concert, shop at REI, etc...
Everyone will have a different set of preferences. But those were our and we had similar parameters as yours among many others. Though we're likely a bit more center politically vs. strongly red or blue. Vancouver is pretty mixed vs. all red/blue until you get out into the country. Once there, like Oregon, things lean more heavily red.
We had the same decision to make. Basically, you need to visit both to see what neighborhoods you like for your family. Then perform a compare/contrast. Assuming you kind find a similar amenities in both which we did, the WA wins for financial reasons alone. Then there are other less immediate preferences which everyone has based on personal hobbies, interested, etc... WA checked all those boxes for us. Lastly, there is something to be said for having enough separation from PDX all the craziness going on while still having access the good parts of Portland. Vancouver is close enough to easier jump over and catch a flight, head over to the Japanese Gardens, catch a concert, shop at REI, etc...
Everyone will have a different set of preferences. But those were our and we had similar parameters as yours among many others. Though we're likely a bit more center politically vs. strongly red or blue. Vancouver is pretty mixed vs. all red/blue until you get out into the country. Once there, like Oregon, things lean more heavily red.
Derek
Thanks Derek. It's a cop out but I'm right down the middle holmes.
We were facing that decision 6 years ago when my wife and I moved back to the Pacific Northwest after a decade in Texas. We analyzed the issue to death and chose Camas over the comparable suburbs on the west side from Beaverton to West Linn and Wilsonville.
Have not for one moment regretted our choice. We also find that we go over to Portland less and less as the restaurant and shopping options in Vancouver and Camas keep getting better and better. Just spent the morning at the Vancouver Farmers Market and the brew festival happening today in downtown Vancouver. Certainly as good or better than anything happening in Portland today I suspect. Some issues:
Taxes: At our combined income, our state income tax savings is about equal to what we are spending to send our daughter to the UW for college. That's not nothing
Traffic: Traffic is remarkably better on the Vancouver side if you are not trying to get onto the bridges to Portland. Beaverton, Clackamas, Tigard, etc. all get overwhelmed with bumper to bumper traffic every morning and afternoon even for ordinary cross-town driving. Vancouver/Camas has very little of that and traffic is just not a factor unless you are trying to drive to and from Portland during commuting hours.
Airport: We are actually MUCH MUCH closer to PDX than any of the comparable suburbs on the west or south sides of Portland.
Schools: If you do a fair apples to apples comparison, WA schools tend to be higher performing and have more resources than OR schools.
Colleges: If you are looking ahead long-term to college, then you have more and better in-state options in WA than OR.
Politics: Pretty similar for similar neighborhoods. An area like Camas is going to have similar politics to similar communities in OR. The more rural you go the redder it gets, the more urban you go the bluer it gets. That is the same in both states. This map is actually very informative as you explore communities: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...ction-map.html Having observed both state governments up close for several decades I would also conclude that WA is less dysfunctional than OR when it comes to state government. There are a lot of reasons for that but WA is basically less parochial.
The one thing that OR definitely does better is land use planning. Clark County just has out-of-control sprawl which is having all kinds of negative effects. But you can avoid most of that by choosing to live in more central location not way out in the fringe sprawl areas like Ridgefield or Hockinson or Battle Ground.
We were facing that decision 6 years ago when my wife and I moved back to the Pacific Northwest after a decade in Texas. We analyzed the issue to death and chose Camas over the comparable suburbs on the west side from Beaverton to West Linn and Wilsonville.
Have not for one moment regretted our choice. We also find that we go over to Portland less and less as the restaurant and shopping options in Vancouver and Camas keep getting better and better. Just spent the morning at the Vancouver Farmers Market and the brew festival happening today in downtown Vancouver. Certainly as good or better than anything happening in Portland today I suspect. Some issues:
Taxes: At our combined income, our state income tax savings is about equal to what we are spending to send our daughter to the UW for college. That's not nothing
Traffic: Traffic is remarkably better on the Vancouver side if you are not trying to get onto the bridges to Portland. Beaverton, Clackamas, Tigard, etc. all get overwhelmed with bumper to bumper traffic every morning and afternoon even for ordinary cross-town driving. Vancouver/Camas has very little of that and traffic is just not a factor unless you are trying to drive to and from Portland during commuting hours.
Airport: We are actually MUCH MUCH closer to PDX than any of the comparable suburbs on the west or south sides of Portland.
Schools: If you do a fair apples to apples comparison, WA schools tend to be higher performing and have more resources than OR schools.
Colleges: If you are looking ahead long-term to college, then you have more and better in-state options in WA than OR.
Politics: Pretty similar for similar neighborhoods. An area like Camas is going to have similar politics to similar communities in OR. The more rural you go the redder it gets, the more urban you go the bluer it gets. That is the same in both states. This map is actually very informative as you explore communities: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...ction-map.html Having observed both state governments up close for several decades I would also conclude that WA is less dysfunctional than OR when it comes to state government. There are a lot of reasons for that but WA is basically less parochial.
The one thing that OR definitely does better is land use planning. Clark County just has out-of-control sprawl which is having all kinds of negative effects. But you can avoid most of that by choosing to live in more central location not way out in the fringe sprawl areas like Ridgefield or Hockinson or Battle Ground.
Wow thank you so much I won't broadcast my salary here, as half the crowd will think I'm boastful and the others will say "that's all you make" lol, but I do pretty well.
I used 100k, I know that's not a lot these days especially in Portland, but 10% of 100k is 10K. That's likely 2-4 months of rent/mortgage for a lot of people. Absolutely nothing to sneeze at. Or it's 2 years worth of vacations or yea, college tuition for a couple of semesters.
Of course, if you like urban amenities, maybe living in Portland is worth the 10%
Wow thank you so much I won't broadcast my salary here, as half the crowd will think I'm boastful and the others will say "that's all you make" lol, but I do pretty well.
I used 100k, I know that's not a lot these days especially in Portland, but 10% of 100k is 10K. That's likely 2-4 months of rent/mortgage for a lot of people. Absolutely nothing to sneeze at. Or it's 2 years worth of vacations or yea, college tuition for a couple of semesters.
Of course, if you like urban amenities, maybe living in Portland is worth the 10%
What inner-city Portland has is walkable neighborhoods. You won't find that in any suburbs on any side of the river, in OR or WA. You can find a bit of it in downtown Camas and the downtown/uptown Vancouver area, but that is about it for the WA side.
Of course if that is what you are looking for, you will be looking at Portland proper and not the suburbs anyway.
Thanks Derek. It's a cop out but I'm right down the middle holmes.
Glad to provide some insight and sorry for that messy post. I was actually just running out the door and didn't get a chance to clean it up. That post wins the prize for my sloppiest ever on CD. lol I took my son to downtown Portland to pick up some hiking boots at REI for an upcoming trip. We made it there in under 30 minutes each way on a busy weekend. So, that's literally how easy it can be to do things in downtown from Vancouver. That's not saying there aren't occasions when there are accidents and other slowdowns like any big city. But it can be quick more times than not. Also, other parts of PDX are even easier to access such as the airport or areas with major retail stores. And yes, there are certain things that are just better to buy in Portland. This of course depends on what you're looking for. There are stores that simply don't exist in Vancouver like REI or Next Adventure for outdoor gear. The same was true when I bought my paddleboard. The are no paddleboard or surf shops in Vancouver. So, Portland it is. I find the same is true with other things like furniture, computer/electronic equipment, musical instruments, etc... And there are more music venues to catch a concert, more art galleries, botanic gardens, the zoo and stuff like that.
The crazy part is, you go into a store in OR and buy something which costs *exactly* what it says on the tag and not a penny more. I've never lived anywhere like that before. Then, you cross the river to your home where you never pay income tax. If you have that option, its a pretty sweet deal - the best of both worlds.
All this being said, there are pros/cons living anywhere. So, it would be good to hear from the Oregon locals who choose that side for whatever reasons. IMO, that choice is typically due to job location or family proximity. If neither of those are factors like when working remotely, its harder to realize the benefits while paying additional taxes.
Possibly one advantage I've seen on the OR side, depending on which suburb, is that Oregon tends to be more bike friendly than Vancouver. The roads on this side have fewer bike lanes or riding trails overall. So, it makes it harder for those who like to bike a lot for exercise like my son. The Burnt Bridge Trail is the longest which is ~ 8 miles one way. When we lived in Monterey, CA, by contrast, the road biking options were nearly endless right along the coast. So, that was a bit of an adjustment for him. Though I have more paddle options here which I really enjoy. So, its all about trade-offs and finding the best mix for your tribe.
Derek
Last edited by MtnSurfer; 07-31-2022 at 07:02 PM..
You have kids. Washington has a good reputation for schools and Oregon does not. That might be your decision point.
If you work in Washington, live in Washington and don't pay income tax and live close to the border so you can shop in Oregon without sales tax. As far as I know Washington still does not tax groceries or rent, so you only have to drive for the large ticket shopping.
Glad to provide some insight and sorry for that messy post. I was actually just running out the door and didn't get a chance to clean it up. That post wins the prize for my sloppiest ever on CD. lol I took my son to downtown Portland to pick up some hiking boots at REI for an upcoming trip. We made it there in under 30 minutes each way on a busy weekend. So, that's literally how easy it can be to do things in downtown from Vancouver. That's not saying there aren't occasions when there are accidents and other slowdowns like any big city. But it can be quick more times than not. Also, other parts of PDX are even easier to access such as the airport or areas with major retail stores. And yes, there are certain things that are just better to buy in Portland. This of course depends on what you're looking for. There are stores that simply don't exist in Vancouver like REI or Next Adventure for outdoor gear. The same was true when I bought my paddleboard. The are no paddleboard or surf shops in Vancouver. So, Portland it is. I find the same is true with other things like furniture, computer/electronic equipment, musical instruments, etc... And there are more music venues to catch a concert, more art galleries, botanic gardens, the zoo and stuff like that.
The crazy part is, you go into a store in OR and buy something which costs *exactly* what it says on the tag and not a penny more. I've never lived anywhere like that before. Then, you cross the river to your home where you never pay income tax. If you have that option, its a pretty sweet deal - the best of both worlds.
All this being said, there are pros/cons living anywhere. So, it would be good to hear from the Oregon locals who choose that side for whatever reasons. IMO, that choice is typically due to job location or family proximity. If neither of those are factors like when working remotely, its harder to realize the benefits while paying additional taxes.
Possibly one advantage I've seen on the OR side, depending on which suburb, is that Oregon tends to be more bike friendly than Vancouver. The roads on this side have fewer bike lanes or riding trails overall. So, it makes it harder for those who like to bike a lot for exercise like my son. The Burnt Bridge Trail is the longest which is ~ 8 miles one way. When we lived in Monterey, CA, by contrast, the road biking options were nearly endless right along the coast. So, that was a bit of an adjustment for him. Though I have more paddle options here which I really enjoy. So, its all about trade-offs and finding the best mix for your tribe.
Derek
The Vancouver/Clark County bike map (top link on this page) is pretty accurate. https://www.cityofvancouver.us/cdd/page/bicycle-maps You can ride all the way from East Vancouver/Camas to downtown Vancouver on quiet streets with bike lanes but you have to know where to go.
A very nice ride is to start at say Fruit Valley Elementary (or anywhere in downtown Vancouver actually) and then ride out Lower River Road (highway 501) to Vancouver Lake Park from which there is an off-street bike path to Frenchmen's Bar Park on the Columbia. Both parks have nice beaches and are good for picnics. At Frenchmen's Bar Park you can continue riding for about another mile on dirt paths to get to a (usually) deserted beach north of the actual park. Both parks charge admission for cars and have limited parking, but if you are on a bike you can ride right in and bypass the admissions gate.
But yes, less good bike lanes and bike trails in Vancouver than Portland. Both cities are worse than Seattle frankly. And the problem in Portland is that homeless encampments have taken over some of the better trails which hasn't happened in Seattle.
The Vancouver/Clark County bike map (top link on this page) is pretty accurate. https://www.cityofvancouver.us/cdd/page/bicycle-maps You can ride all the way from East Vancouver/Camas to downtown Vancouver on quiet streets with bike lanes but you have to know where to go.
A very nice ride is to start at say Fruit Valley Elementary (or anywhere in downtown Vancouver actually) and then ride out Lower River Road (highway 501) to Vancouver Lake Park from which there is an off-street bike path to Frenchmen's Bar Park on the Columbia. Both parks have nice beaches and are good for picnics. At Frenchmen's Bar Park you can continue riding for about another mile on dirt paths to get to a (usually) deserted beach north of the actual park. Both parks charge admission for cars and have limited parking, but if you are on a bike you can ride right in and bypass the admissions gate.
But yes, less good bike lanes and bike trails in Vancouver than Portland. Both cities are worse than Seattle frankly. And the problem in Portland is that homeless encampments have taken over some of the better trails which hasn't happened in Seattle.
Thanks, Texasdiver. I'll have to tell him about the ride over by Vancouver Lake. I've seen that biking map before. Even with that, some of those roads aren't the greatest and can get narrow without enough room for cars/trucks and bikes. There are so many roads without shoulders and even fewer with bike lanes. So, its a biker beware safety type issue. We also get our fair share of crazy drivers in big trucks (or cars) not always paying attention or drunk along with associated accidents. A friend of ours just suffered a head on collision with a drunk driver who crossed over into oncoming traffic = multiple car pile up in an instant.
Regarding Portland bike paths, yes, I've heard about that on other forum threads. There are places the locals won't even ride anymore due to homeless camp overflows and concerns with being harassed. Heck, I've even witnessed some of that stuff in downtown along the Waterfront Park Trail. Some of the homeless can act aggressively toward women riding by or running - loud, following them. Quite a number seem spaced out, drugged out along with other mental illness issues leading to 'acting out.' I would imagine in other less open, visible parts of those trails it can get more sketchy. However, since we're talking about Portland suburbs, it seems like a number of those areas have a bit more bike friendly roads by original design - at least in some of the neighborhoods I've visited.
Derek
Last edited by MtnSurfer; 08-01-2022 at 10:40 AM..
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I won't broadcast my salary here, as half the crowd will think I'm boastful and the others will say "that's all you make" lol, but I do pretty well. 
I was actually just running out the door and didn't get a chance to clean it up. That post wins the prize for my sloppiest ever on CD. lol 
I took my son to downtown Portland to pick up some hiking boots at REI for an upcoming trip. We made it there in under 30 minutes each way on a busy weekend. So, that's literally how easy it can be to do things in downtown from Vancouver. That's not saying there aren't occasions when there are accidents and other slowdowns like any big city. But it can be quick more times than not. Also, other parts of PDX are even easier to access such as the airport or areas with major retail stores. And yes, there are certain things that are just better to buy in Portland. This of course depends on what you're looking for. There are stores that simply don't exist in Vancouver like REI or Next Adventure for outdoor gear. The same was true when I bought my paddleboard. The are no paddleboard or surf shops in Vancouver. So, Portland it is. I find the same is true with other things like furniture, computer/electronic equipment, musical instruments, etc... And there are more music venues to catch a concert, more art galleries, botanic gardens, the zoo and stuff like that.
