Are there Oregon cities that still have good quality of life? (Portland: middle-class, real estate market)

[snaketotem]

Originally Posted by freedom

The majority like to see progress that is why towns grow.

It's just a shame that so much is sacraficed in the name of progress, such as clean air and water, well managed roads, parks and open and wild spaces. I've lived in Southern Oregon a long time and I can assure you that the growth here is not progressive but detrimental to the health of this valley and its residence. The problem isn't just developers, it's the state, city and county governments and those who profit from filling every square inch of land. It's a shame that Mother Nature, and a better quality of life, isn't sometimes put ahead of the almighty dollar.

[freedom]

Originally Posted by snaketotem

It's just a shame that so much is sacraficed in the name of progress, such as clean air and water, well managed roads, parks and open and wild spaces. I've lived in Southern Oregon a long time and I can assure you that the growth here is not progressive but detrimental to the health of this valley and its residence. The problem isn't just developers, it's the state, city and county governments and those who profit from filling every square inch of land. It's a shame that Mother Nature, and a better quality of life, isn't sometimes put ahead of the almighty dollar.

It is not a shame to people that raise families with a roof over their heads, food to eat, time and means for hobbies.
The problem is not developers at all. We provide a service that is in demand. If people did not want neighborhoods, schools, stores, infrastructure (roads, bridges, sewers, water systems, airports etc..) then they would not exist.
Money is an organized process of trade it is not almighty. If some put it above people, then shame on them. It is like any technology- it can be abused. For me my motivation is not money, though it happens to be a bi-product of hard work. My motivation is freedom. Mother nature is very strong, God created a system that cleans itself. I think you have issues with people that appear to make more money than you think they should, while blaming them for pollution, congestion, and exaggerated growth. Most of this state is owned by Govt. Man's foot print in the USA is 5%, far from every square inch. The air is cleaner in the Rogue Valley than it was 20 yrs ago.
Change brings challenges. Blaming doesn't solve them. If people don't like the way a community has grown or changed then they have the freedom to move. They don't have the right to dictate how a majority of society has chosen to live.

[snaketotem]

Freedom,

First, I didn't start this thread because I wanted to get into a debate with anyone. What I wanted was more information on healthier communities than where I live now. Second, you have made some judgments and generalizations about me that make you look foolish because we are complete strangers. I am not "unhappy with life and complaining that it is unfulfilled based on outside circumstances." I have a great life and I'm happy with every aspect EXCEPT where I presently live. I do not “have issues with people that appear to make more money than I think they should.” I’m quite professionally successful and I'm unconcerned with what others make. The growth in my area is anything but "exaggerated." We obviously look at "progress" as two very different things. With that said, I will not be replying to any of your additional comments / posts. It's pointless. I will, however, leave you with this thought: "Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect." Peace!

[freedom]

Originally Posted by snaketotem

Freedom,

First, I didn't start this thread because I wanted to get into a debate with anyone. What I wanted was more information on healthier communities than where I live now. Second, you have made some judgments and generalizations about me that make you look foolish because we are complete strangers. I am not "unhappy with life and complaining that it is unfulfilled based on outside circumstances." I have a great life and I'm happy with every aspect EXCEPT where I presently live. I do not “have issues with people that appear to make more money than I think they should.” I’m quite professionally successful and I'm unconcerned with what others make. The growth in my area is anything but "exaggerated." We obviously look at "progress" as two very different things. With that said, I will not be replying to any of your additional comments / posts. It's pointless. I will, however, leave you with this thought: "Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect." Peace!

Re-read your posts then, i am just going off of what you wrote.....We weave webs everyday and suffer the consequences or enjoy the benefits, that is what this school is about.
No debate here, just defending my trade from broad generalities.

[tewhann]

Freedom, by "defending" as you have, you quite clearly confirm all the "broad generalities" that very accurately describe developers.

This is a country who does no longer values its resources. A country who desires instant gratification no matter the sacrifice. A country that has no respect for land or the environment.

Rather than repair and improve the many existing residential properties, we've shifted to sprawl and the rape of the land.

And we've lined the pockets of all the developers.

Until WE take a stand and stop buying the McMansions, Freedom is right, they'll just to continue to follow the demand.

[freedom]

Originally Posted by tewhann

Freedom, by "defending" as you have, you quite clearly confirm all the "broad generalities" that very accurately describe developers.

This is a country who does no longer values its resources. A country who desires instant gratification no matter the sacrifice. A country that has no respect for land or the environment.

Rather than repair and improve the many existing residential properties, we've shifted to sprawl and the rape of the land.

And we've lined the pockets of all the developers.

Until WE take a stand and stop buying the McMansions, Freedom is right, they'll just to continue to follow the demand.

Because I do what I was born to do, I am confirming all the broad generalities. That's a hoot..... can you give me an example of how I am ruining the world?
This country has more resources available than at any other time in the history of the world. We produce resources. Sprawl is not due to people not wanting to work on fixer uppers, it is due to wanting a certain lifestyle, like gardening, horsemanship, forest husbandry, an area for a large shop for work and hobbies, space from hearing the neighbors scream at eachother, self-sufficiency from public water, and sewer systems, space to raise a large family. Does all this stem from covetousness, or just an opinion that everyone should live like socialist Europe?
No one has the right to limit the size of someones home, property or lifestyle. Forcing people into cities is the opposite of freedom.
Condemning developers for making a profit is plain sad. It is a very narrow minded view that judges someone based on what they earn, and criticizes builders and developers as being evil and not caring for the world they work and live on. Don't include me in your rape of the land rhetoric, it is offensive.

[florigidge]

Also, having been a reporter for many years and covering city hall, I know for a fact that developers most often get what they want, community be damned, and city officials (the ones not on the take) who try to hold them to stricter standards are simply outmaneuvered by lawyers, and that the development lobby is often involved in writing the laws and standards that apply. Personally, I think there should be a moratorium on spec building, infill and rehab should be mandatory (with proper oversite and intelligent zoning, unlike what's going on in Bend, for example) and the standards and codes should be made much, much more stringent. The additional costs should be made up by some formula between home buyers and developer profits.

Thanks.

your entire quote is absolutely spot on. but this paragraph is simply the god's truth...and not just in oregon. this is a national problem...and a national modus operandi for all developers.

no conscience. it is only their pocket book they care about and those of their investors.

[yumimango]

If you don't have to stay in Oregon,I recommend our village of Molde,Norway.We have plenty of snow and people here like the snow sports a lot.We have some mountains too,so you can be high up as you like.Also our water and air is maybe cleanest on earth.The cost of houses is not so bad,too.I think much better than Medford Oregon. Many people here can spaek English and enjoy to talk with you.We are on the Atlantic side and have weather like Oregon.

[lilypad]

What about east on I84 toward Hood River and beyond? Some nice little towns that way. Is very different than west of Mt. Hood, high desert and wide open spaces, but always sunny and much less populated. When I was living in Portland, I would go over there chasing the sun, and it never disappointed!

[CantWait2Bthere]

I agree that the suburban sprawl in sothern Cal has gotten way out of hand. Not to mention the homes are built so darn close together and, at least in the area I live, the development of providing decent streets to handle all the new growth is not sufficient. But after reading through the last posts I can say I would never go up against arguing with Freedom..I can tell he is much wiser and smarter then I, and besides I might need him one day to build my dream home .

What I am curious about though is what kind of homes do those who have issue with Mr Freedom live in? Are you homeowners and if not might that have something to do with your disgust with him? Though I myself don't care for this trend living in a McMansions and using more resources then neccessary to maintain it, I am thankful that I have a nice home and I don't think I lined the pockets of one of those evil and land raping developers who invested in building homes affordable to working families.