Anti-Christmas Villans in Ashland (Salem: to eat, activities, best)

[davefr]

Originally Posted by jrkliny

I agree. Why not leave the Christmas tree and other Christmas stuff at home and let others celebrate or not as they choose?

Geez, the mere presence of a Christmas tree does not preclude anyone's choice of how to celebrate or not celebrate.

I have a good idea. Let's build schools out of concrete blocks and and make them as lifeless as possible. No artwork, no colors, no decorations, no music, no freedom of expression and mandatory uniforms. That will help ensure no-one gets offended.

[jrkliny]

Of course there are differences between preferences in colors, artwork, music, etc. On the other hand these preferences don't often lead to fanaticism, missionary zeal, holocausts, wars, devotion, terrorism, crusades, Inquisitions, intolerance of others with different preferences, etc, etc. Sorry, but that is not the case for religious beliefs as witnessed by the current middle eastern wars.

[haggardhouseelf]

So do you say the Pledge of Allegiance? Do you watch the Charlie Brown Christmas special? Like the first commenter to the story mentioned - do you use American money? God is everywhere in America... it's in our constitution. When have we gone too far in trying to make everything secular for the sake of political correctness? I'm atheist, btw, and I do say the pledge, watch Charlie Brown, use American money, and even celebrate Christmas & Easter.

[esya]

To answer your question--

It's humiliating when it's billed as non religious and it is in fact a religious event--Feliz Navidad is Christian, as most likely the Scandinavian song was. "Oh, come on and we'll have a nice nondenominational event". It's like getting scammed, quite honestly.

"Let's all sing about Christmas around the world" is NOT multi religious; although it might be multinational, that is not the same thing as multireligious or multicultural as culture includes beliefs, for the most part. It is a waste of an evening for our family, just as most folks would not be interested in two hours of observance of Buddhism, Hinduism, etc. They just wouldn't bother. Even assuming the one school event you were at was OK, I do have 16 years of public school events to consider and none of them were.

As for Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts those are private clubs and allowed to do what they want.

If public school really wanted to teach religious tolerance and diversity they would NOT do it in the month including the major Christian holiday of the year. That single fact takes everything else out of balance. And don't give me the stuff about Hannuka and Kwanza--they were both created in response to the hubbuloo about Christmas every December. Hannuka is an insignificant holiday compared to the major Jewish holy days, and Kwanza was invented out of a need to provide a significant religious/cultural experience that was not WASP, for African Americans. As for other major world religions, they have major events at other times as well.

This discussion is about deeply held cultural beliefs and probably has no resolution, which is why it belongs not in public schools. Majority rule does not trump Constitutional rights. If it was not intended as a Christian observance the words "Christ" or "Saint Nicholas", etc. would have been taken out of it long ago.

[Wicked Felina]

Originally Posted by davefr

Geez, the mere presence of a Christmas tree does not preclude anyone's choice of how to celebrate or not celebrate.

Thank you davefr. Kudos to you for being able to not only read, but to comprehend the OP.

[Nina-in-Ashland]

Originally Posted by Wicked Felina

This discussion may have turned into your described "deeply held cultural beliefs". But as the OP I know that no matter how you try to twist it, the discussion is not about Constitutional Rights, and it is far from being "anti-Christian." How on earth you came to that conclusion is beyond me....nor can you logically explain your reasoning.

Your post strikes me as written by one who is always looking for a diabolical meaning in an innocuous post. Had you read the link, you would've been able to figure that out, as others have managed to do.

You are not the Moderator. Perhaps Moderators are chosen without such incessant bias or a penchant for making utterly ridiculous assumptions of an anti-Christian bias based upon a few sentences. That borders on the insane.

I am also quite sure that this is not the first time you've tried to play the role of one who is self-righteously offended by assumptions based upon very little information.

I am reporting you as a troll, with your specific intent to defame me as the OP.

I can't rep you again, Felina, I wish I could! Great response. It's so refreshing to see so many grounded people respond in support of what really is a very pleasant, warm-spirited occasion, regardless of one's religious leanings. For many it's a time of good will, celebrating, generosity, and making and sharing happy memories - it is not exclusionary, and I wish those deriding it as such would stop doing so. They preach tolerance and espouse the evils of judging others, then practice the exact opposite. Please stop spoiling this lovely time of year for the rest of us, especially the children. There are many beautiful qualities to Christmas and valuable character-building lessons to be gleaned (have these objectors never read Dickens' A Christmas Carol, or listened to the words to "The Little Drummer Boy"?) If you choose not to celebrate Christmas in some way, however large or small, (and I am sorry for if you don't, for you are indeed missing out) please be gracious and mature enough not to ruin it for those who do.

[Silverfall]

Originally Posted by esya

To answer your question--

It's humiliating when it's billed as non religious and it is in fact a religious event--Feliz Navidad is Christian, as most likely the Scandinavian song was. "Oh, come on and we'll have a nice nondenominational event". It's like getting scammed, quite honestly.

Okay I'll bite.

The program was today so I kept the program. I read this post before I left so I timed it. The whopping 21 minutes and 47 seconds that it was...

So here in Salem Oregon this is how they do their holiday program
1) it's short...no two hour programs here. These are 1st graders. Second grade is about the same here.
2) Here is a list of the songs since you are convinced that there is some diabolical plan to enforce Christianity on kids here...


Hello, Bonjour (not religious, it's a hello song in multiple languages)
Jingle Bells (non-religious and was actually written as a Thanksgiving song, btw)
Every Little Wish (mentions prayer and Christmas, so I'd call it Christian based)
Tue, Tue (A Ghana folk song sung at Kwanzaa)
Douglas Mountain ( generic religious -mentions God, but not Jesus-snow song)
Hanukkah, oh Hannukkah
Zum Gali (hebrew song)
You Better Watch Out (non religious Christmas)
Christmas is Coming (religious Christmas)
All I want for Christmas (non religious Christmas)
Feliz Navidad (non religious Christmas, I disagree that the lyrics are religious)
Silent Night sung in German (Christian)
Peace, Peace, peace (not religious)
To the tune of We Wish You a Merry Christmas (modified words to reflect many world holidays)
Then ended the program with Chinese new Year saying "Gung Hey Fat Choy" and their red dragons.

In the spoken parts of the program the kids mention Christmas, Kwanzaa, St Lucia's Day(Scandinavia), Hannukah, Santa Claus, Posadas, Ramadan, Diwali, and Chinese new Year

As I said I am non-Christian and I thought it was great. Silent Night is a strong Christian song, but it is such a beautiful peace of music. I listen to it every year despite not being a Christian. I guess I can appreciate the beauty in other songs and cultures without feeling like someone is enforcing their beliefs on me.

I also think you are way off on the OP being anti-Christian. I think the OP was focused on the odd nature of taking down something that is meant to provide for needy children. Having constitutional rights doesn't mean you will never be offended.

Me, I see nothing wrong with the 21:47 minute program that taught my first grader that not every speaks English. She sung in Spanish, German, Hebrew, and whatever language Tue, Tue is in Ghana. She also learned where all the countries were on a map among many other things. They did a nice job with the social studies aspect of it.

[ExNooYawk]

Originally Posted by Silverfall

No it's more like the 45-60 days of Christmas these days...I mean stuff was going up after Halloween in some local stores.

Agreed. It is the merchants who have started the mania for shopping starting on the day after Thanksgiving. Most of us who celebrate it wouldn't mind if they ceased and desisted. Advent has taken a back seat to sales which breathlessly advertise 'free shipping but order NOW!'

It may be hard to be a parent in families which don't celebrate Christmas but it's equally difficult for Christian families who are trying to keep the focus on the 'reason for the season', so to speak.

As a kid, we didn't put up our tree until Christmas Eve. Now it goes up in early December. Why? I dunno. It came down on New Year's Day. Now? January 6 (or thereabouts). Why? I dunno.

[ExNooYawk]

Originally Posted by haggardhouseelf

Ha ha! Did you read the first comment... so funny...

Every time a story like this comes out, to me, it screams insecurity. Some people must really have a lot of fear in them to want to deny others the right to live how they want to live - especially when it involves something as fun and beautiful as a tree! And I'm a non-Christian.

I'm getting so tired of everyone trying so hard to be so religiously politically correct all the time. What's wrong with embracing diversity?

Not a thing, Haggard, not a thing. When I see the menorahs on display, it makes me happy. I never saw one 'til I was an adult and my kids started bringing them home from school. They were delighted and so was I. So what if we don't celebrate it? They are lovely.

Quick story: My youngest brought home from school eight pretzel sticks, eight mini-marshmallows, half a hotdog roll and some peanut butter in a little cup. She spread the peanut butter on the roll, stuck the pretzel sticks, topped them with the marshmallows and proceeded to eat the whole thing. When she was done she said, "Mom, that was the best menorah I ever ate."

How can you not love it?

[davefr]

Originally Posted by ExNooYawk

It may be hard to be a parent in families which don't celebrate Christmas but it's equally difficult for Christian families who are trying to keep the focus on the 'reason for the season', so to speak.

+1, well said!!

The only Christmas left is the celebration of dead presidents going into cash registers.