Do Not Move to Oregon (Portland: taxes, live in, law)

[tripphome]

Well, as a small business owner, we are actively searching for a more business-friendly state in which to build our business. We have been doing what we do for over 5 years, and are SO glad to be able to "set our own goals" as it were, but now, if we stay in Oregon, our goal will be to not make more than $250K. How is that beneficial to the economy? How is that beneficial to my business & my community? We could have grown & expanded & provided jobs in our local community, but we are now disinclined to proceed in that direction because of the fiscal irresponsibility of our state government and their need to increase our tax burden because of it.
Who indeed will help the "poor" when the jobs are gone? When the tax revenue dries up because there are no more businesses in the area to hire people, to create income (and therefore tax-payers) and to pay these business taxes? I do not have the answers, but for the sake of my future in business we will be leaving the beautiful state of Oregon & I fear we are not alone. If the government was required to "live within their means" as we all should try to do, this issue would not be an issue! Things will not change & the attitude here in the Northwest, as I have read here, will be the death of businesses all around the area. Very sad, indeed.
Can anyone give me some suggestions for small business friendly states I can research? I plan to be re-located by this next fall...hopefully registered to VOTE in my new community by election time! This has been an interesting read through this thread & very educational, to say the least! Thank you each one for sharing your insights & your opinions.

[ORE-Bound]

We're moving to Oregon BECAUSE those measures passed, and we are bringing our jobs with us. We live in Colorado, where about 12 years ago an insane man named Douglas Bruce decided to get a measure on the ballot to hamstring our elected representatives from raising taxes. It was passed by voters as a constitutional amendment and is known as the Taxpayers Bill of Rights. Now our schools, universities, health services, roads, fire department, police and other basic services are being MASSIVELY cut and there's not much we can do except sit and fiddle while Rome burns. Luckily my family can move to a state that values the services provided by the Commonwealth. At what point did we decide that we shouldn't pool our resources to provide public services? Fox News will be the death of our nation.

[figmalt]

Nobody's saying we shouldn't provide services. That's a straw man argument. If you go back and read the posts it's pretty clear that people are frustrated with lack of accountability and transparency with funding provided by tax payers. As has been stated, Oregon is continually crying poverty for education, police, fireman, etc., and the legislature basically threaten voters with mayhem and destruction unless tax initiatives are passed. It's little better than emotional blackmail.

[benice66]

Originally Posted by rosecitywanderer

I'll be leaving as soon as I can.

This is an absolutely awful state with a Socialist government and Socialist residents that do stupid things like increase taxes on businesses during a recession. Measures 66 and 67 which increase taxes on those earning over $250,000 and for all businesses just passed. This state completely discourages any sort business to come because they will just take all your money and give it to people who don't do jack squat.

Because of 66 and 67, the wealthiest residents will pack up and leave as will businesses. Unemployment will continue to skyrocket and the state will be bankrupt with no income because they are against any sort of business.

I have lived here my whole life and can't wait to leave. This is an absolute crap hole of a state run by corrupt politicians voted by Socialists. If you have a shred of sense in your brain, don't come to Oregon. They will take your hard earned money and give it to those who believe they are entitled to what you have earned.

To Hell with Oregon. I'm gone.

Increasing taxes for businesses that go over 250k will stop them from growing and providing more jobs! More jobs means more revenue for the state. You learn that in high-school economics!! What gives with these people?

[SonicsFan93]

Originally Posted by ORE-Bound

We're moving to Oregon BECAUSE those measures passed, and we are bringing our jobs with us. We live in Colorado, where about 12 years ago an insane man named Douglas Bruce decided to get a measure on the ballot to hamstring our elected representatives from raising taxes. It was passed by voters as a constitutional amendment and is known as the Taxpayers Bill of Rights. Now our schools, universities, health services, roads, fire department, police and other basic services are being MASSIVELY cut and there's not much we can do except sit and fiddle while Rome burns. Luckily my family can move to a state that values the services provided by the Commonwealth. At what point did we decide that we shouldn't pool our resources to provide public services? Fox News will be the death of our nation.

Up here in Washington, anti-tax crusader Tim Eyman tried to get an initiative passed along the same lines, and actually used Colorado as an example of it being done right. Now, I don't laud Washington State voters for many things, but rejecting I-1033 was one thing they did right.

[Silverfall]

Originally Posted by ORE-Bound

At what point did we decide that we shouldn't pool our resources to provide public services?

That isn't the issue here. The issue here is PERS and what is fair.

[rhodan653]

Originally Posted by Silverfall

That isn't the issue here. The issue here is PERS and what is fair.

Yes, that is exactly right. If you reformed PERS to be more along the lines of a 401(k) style plan and conform the retirement age to a more normal level, such as age 62 or 65 the savings would be massive and you could actually afford to pay higher annual salaries AND hire more teachers, police and fire AND have money left over. God forbid, though, you stop someone from retiring at age 52 with a 6 figure pension guranteed until they die.

The only way to force reform like that is to force the government to work within a reasonable BUDGET. If you keep increasing taxes, what incentive do the politicians have to actually be prudent with the money?? They can be inefficient, spend it on useless pet projects, kowtow to the state employee unions and continue to maintain the barest of mimimum standards on quality of education and other basic services.

The only way to change that is to hold the line on taxes and hold politicians accountable.

[Rob Allen]

The trouble is, you can't just declare that PERS is going to pay less now. It's a contract, signed and sealed. The people in the system now will get what the contract specifies. They can negotiate about what happens to future retirees, but it's too late to do anything about the current ones.

[Ultrarunner]

Originally Posted by Rob Allen

The trouble is, you can't just declare that PERS is going to pay less now. It's a contract, signed and sealed. The people in the system now will get what the contract specifies. They can negotiate about what happens to future retirees, but it's too late to do anything about the current ones.

That is the conventional wisdom... however, municipalities across the county are on the verge of Bankruptcy and some are...

There is a entire area of law as to what happens when goverment goes broke... I would never say it's too late to do anything about the current ones because I've learned nothing is set in stone...

In the private sector there are plenty that signed and sealed retirement contracts the Bankruptcy Courts have modified... a huge one that had lots of coverage was retired airline pilots loosing more than half of the contracted for retirements.

[Ultrarunner]

Originally Posted by ORE-Bound

We're moving to Oregon BECAUSE those measures passed, and we are bringing our jobs with us. We live in Colorado, where about 12 years ago an insane man named Douglas Bruce decided to get a measure on the ballot to hamstring our elected representatives from raising taxes. It was passed by voters as a constitutional amendment and is known as the Taxpayers Bill of Rights. Now our schools, universities, health services, roads, fire department, police and other basic services are being MASSIVELY cut and there's not much we can do except sit and fiddle while Rome burns. Luckily my family can move to a state that values the services provided by the Commonwealth. At what point did we decide that we shouldn't pool our resources to provide public services? Fox News will be the death of our nation.

Welcome to Oregon... don't really know much about Colorado Politics... so I will not comment.

The thing to remember is the money has to come from somewhere and even those with largess will eventually run out...

Part of this thread dealt with people making changes in light of OR new tax measures... your decision to make OR your home only reinforces the idea that the effect OR politics goes beyond it's borders...

Can't comment on Fox News... I've never lived in a home with Cable TV