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People fail to remember when they're howling about taxes that OR has no sales tax, which I think 47 of the 50 states do have.
I would be very curious to know what percentage of the budget sales tax revenues account for in, for instance, Washington, which has a nominal state sales tax of 6.5% and 9.5% in King County (Seattle metro).
Certain concepts cant be avoided:
1. Everything costs money
2. You get what you pay for
3. Services the public demands require money that has to come from somewhere. No free lunches.
Well said. With regard to all of these, there is another thing that many people fail to realize. The economics of petroleum infuse every corner of the service-provision budget. The cost of nearly everything you can imagine, from paving our roads to running our schools increases with rising oil prices . That increase has to be paid for somehow. The taxes that seemed to be sufficient when crude was selling for $26 a barrel aren't going to cut it when crude is selling for $100 a barrel. As Peak Oil looms nearer and nearer, taxes will have to go up, there's no way around that short of breaking our addiction to oil...and that will be a long, slow incremental process.
You know, for the people that say that the passing of these measures would kill jobs and businesses, a wide array of small business seemed to support 66 & 67:
* Adobe Rose Café
* Amallegory Productions, Inc.
* Amazing Stories
* AssetExchange
* Bankers Investment Services, LLC
* BicyclingHub.com
* Blossoming Health Naturopathic Clinic
* Boyle & Associates, Inc.
* Cameron Winery
* Car’s Touch
* Care Medical Equipment
* Cayuse, Inc.
* Changeworks Press
* Chiropractic First, LLC
* Christine Rains Graphic Design
* CJ Graphix
* Clarity Innovations, Inc.
* Cleland Marketing LLC
* Concepts in Community Living, Inc.
* Danville Services of Oregon LLC
* Deschutes Painting, Inc.
* DigiSphere, Inc.
* Drawbridge To Europe, Inc.
* Dreams Over Profit Entertainment
* ECOpdx
* Educational Travel Services, Inc.
* Egan Gardens, Inc.
* Energy Wise Lighting
* Escape From New York Pizza
* Faster Connections
* Ferris Landscaping
* Fiddlehead LLC
* Flowers By Arrangement
* Fresh Air Sash Cord Repair, Inc.
* Green Springs Inn and Cabins
* Happy Hamster Computer Repair
* Highland House Nursing & Rehabilitation Center
* Highland Laboratories, Inc.
* Historic Building Repair
* Holy Cow Cafe and Catering
* J. Mo, LLC
* Jedi Glassworks
* Kiva Grocery
* Krakow Café and Pub
* La Ferme Noire Vineyards
* Laura’s Studio by the Bay
* M.J. Ross Group, Inc.
* Meadowlark Publishing Services
* Micashades
* Milagros Boutique
* Motel Del Rogue
* Northwoods Nursery/One Green World
* NQ Dawan Trucking
* OakTree Digital
* OnSite PC Help, LLC
* Oregon Desert Brine Shrimp Co.
* Oregon Roads, Inc.
* Palo Alto Software, Inc.
* Paloma Clothing
* Pi2- Planning, Investments & Insurance LLC
* R Spencer Antiques, Inc.
* RJB Teach, Write, Photo
* Rolf’s Tax Service
* St. Johns Booksellers
* St. Johns Vision Clinic
* Strictly Organic Coffee Co.
* Super B LLC
* Tanner Creek Energy
* Tea Party Bookshop
* The Cobbler’s Bench
* Thread Hysteria
* Turning Point Center LLC
* Valley Flora
* Western Financial Group
* Whitman Farms
* Witham & Dickey
People fail to remember when they're howling about taxes that OR has no sales tax, which I think 47 of the 50 states do have.
I would be very curious to know what percentage of the budget sales tax revenues account for in, for instance, Washington, which has a nominal state sales tax of 6.5% and 9.5% in King County (Seattle metro).
Certain concepts cant be avoided:
1. Everything costs money
2. You get what you pay for
3. Services the public demands require money that has to come from somewhere. No free lunches.
If it were true... I would agree.
Instead of saying everything costs money... maybe somebody always pays is more accurate... also, plenty of free lunches in OR schools.
There are lots of folks living without paying taxes... especially in Oregon... families that recieve Section 8 in neighboring States still pay Sales Tax on purchases...
I think the point of the thread is the burden of paying in OR is disproportionately on business and higher income individuals where low income can pay almost nothing... not even contributing on purchases with no State Sales Tax.
I would only wish we would get what we pay for... money is diverted from Highways for Bicycle paths... nothing against cyclists... just motorists being on the hook for them.
I would only wish we would get what we pay for... money is diverted from Highways for Bicycle paths... nothing against cyclists... just motorists being on the hook for them.
Actually it makes perfect sense. The State of Oregon has a vested interest in reducing reliance on personally-operated motor vehicles. This is part of the Transportation Planning Rule, which is legislated policy, not just personal opinion (OAR 660-12-0000(1)(b)).
Motorists benefit directly from bicycle accommodation. Every bicycle you pass on the road is one less car in front of you at the next stop light. The overall reduction in traffic pressure benefits all.
In any event, talking about motorists and bicyclists as if they were mutually exclusive groups is a false dichotomy. With the exception of juveniles, bicyclists are tax-paying motorists who sometimes ride their bikes instead of habitually relying on internal combustion machines for transportation...and they are being extra good citizens when they do so.
I think the point of the thread is the burden of paying in OR is disproportionately on business and higher income individuals where low income can pay almost nothing... not even contributing on purchases with no State Sales Tax.
That's the way is should be. It's called a progressive tax structure, and every industrialized nation has it. The richest 1% of Americans own over a third of all privately-held assets in the nation, and 43% of all financial wealth. Tax burden has to be proportional to wealth distribution if you're going to have an economy of scale. Don't worry; the wealthy aren't going broke anytime soon. With the bottom 80% of wage earners raking in 7% of the country's money, it's hardly surprising that lower-income Americans have a low tax burden.
Last edited by Brenda-by-the-sea; 02-27-2010 at 04:52 PM..
Actually it makes perfect sense. The State of Oregon has a vested interest in reducing reliance on personally-operated motor vehicles. This is part of the Transportation Planning Rule, which is legislated policy, not just personal opinion (OAR 660-12-0000(1)(b)).
Motorists benefit directly from bicycle accommodation. Every bicycle you pass on the road is one less car in front of you at the next stop light. The overall reduction in traffic pressure benefits all.
In any event, talking about motorists and bicyclists as if they were mutually exclusive groups is a false dichotomy. With the exception of juveniles, bicyclists are tax-paying motorists who sometimes ride their bikes instead of habitually relying on internal combustion machines for transportation...and they are being extra good citizens when they do so.
The city of Portland proposes to spend 600m on bike paths... which it admits less than 6% of the population will use...
I know you can't answer this and it is not directed towards you...
What does Oregon have against motorists anyway... Oregon collects nearly 30 cents in taxes on every gallon of fuel sold... (24 cents plus whatever is added locally)
Oregon politicians have repeated stated the fuel tax is vital to Oregon's revenue... seems counter productive on so many levels to reduce or have a vested interest in reducing personally operated motor vehicles...
Another example of the disconnect Oregonians have when it comes to revenue...
Tax one segment to pay for another instead of a pay as you go system where the users pay for the services used...
Once convoluted thinking takes hold... is there really anything that cannot be construed in such a manner to be beneficial to someone?
That's the way is should be. It's called a progressive tax structure, and every industrialized nation has it. The richest 1% of Americans own over a third of all privately-held assets in the nation, and 43% of all financial wealth. Tax burden has to be proportional to wealth distribution if you're going to have an economy of scale. Don't worry; the wealthy aren't going broke anytime soon. With the bottom 80% of wage earners raking in 7% of the country's money, it's hardly surprising that lower-income Americans have a low tax burden.
Wealthy go broke all the time... right now, a very wealthy Washington Real Estate Developer has filed bankruptcy... unthinkable 3 years ago...
The same is happening to the fortunes of many... there is nothing fair when some don't have to contribute at all and others are hit retroactively on Gross Receipts and saying not to worry doesn't address the underlying lack of fairness...
I use a credit union, shop at the co-op... the 80% of us have options... many of the wealthy... were not born to wealth in this country either... we will never be great as a people unless class envy is removed...
I would only wish we would get what we pay for... money is diverted from Highways for Bicycle paths... nothing against cyclists... just motorists being on the hook for them.
My hubby is an avid cyclist and has been hit by a car when my hubby had the right of way. A spaced out driver just turned right into him. I think there is benefit for all in having save bike lanes for cyclists. Less emissions in our air is good as well.
I understand where you are coming from, but if we can decrease traffic congestion, get people in better heath, and reduce pollution those benefit lots of people. I think we can all agree that the general health of Americans is not good and our health care system has many issues. A few more people riding their bikes to work is a good thing on many levels. I personally have no problems paying for all of those things because I can appreciate that senior citizens don't use the school system but they use the bus systems and other things that I don't use.
What does Oregon have against motorists anyway... Oregon collects nearly 30 cents in taxes on every gallon of fuel sold... (24 cents plus whatever is added locally)
Oregon politicians have repeated stated the fuel tax is vital to Oregon's revenue... seems counter productive on so many levels to reduce or have a vested interest in reducing personally operated motor vehicles...
It is common sense to formulate public policy that will minimize adverse impacts on society and promote the greater good.
-Global climate change is probably the greatest single threat facing our existence. The carbon footprint of motor vehicles is a major contributing factor.
-Motor vehicles are the primary source of air pollution in Oregon's cities.
-Motor vehicles rely on petroleum, which is a rapidly diminishing resource. Any reasonable person can see the need to transition to more sustainable modes of moving people around.
-Accommodating motor vehicles is the single biggest livability liability in urban planning. Not only do we spend billions annually on roadway construction, maintenance and law enforcement, but the need to accommodate parked vehicles is another planning headache. Designing cities around automobiles leads to sprawl, air pollution and social isolation. One of the biggest reasons ex-Californians cite for leaving SF and SoCal is unlivable traffic congestion.
-Automobiles accidents are the third leading cause of death in the U.S. The U.S. currently spends 8 billion dollars a month on the War Against Terror. But terrorists would have to succeed in carrying out an attack of 9/11 scale twice a month every month to equal the number of people killed each year on our country's roadways. An additional 2.3 million Americans suffer non-fatal auto accident injuries annually.
- Automobile use promotes poor physical health. An estimated 40% of all health-care dollars in the U.S. are spent to treat Type II diabetes, cardiovascular disorders and other conditions that result from a sedentary lifestyle. Transportation convenience is the biggest single reason people fail to move their bodies enough to maintain proper health. How much exercise do you think your heart gets when you drive?
-Automobile traffic promotes poor mental health. Road rage is now listed as an official mental disorder in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders.
It's clear that automobile dependency imposes myriad negative impacts on society. The only real benefit of automobiles is the personal convenience they provide for the physically lethargic. Think of the 1% dedication of fuel taxes used to promote cycling as a kind of sin tax. We don't take the taxes we collect on tobacco and use it to improve tobacco production, do we? We use it to promote good health. Likewise, it makes good sense to take a small sliver of the taxes of a transportation mode whose impacts are overwhelmingly negative and reroute them to lower-impact modes that are more sustainable.
BTW, the proposal was for Portland to spend 600 million on bikeways over the next 20 years. They are aiming for a 25% mode share. If they can achieve that, it will be money well spent...build it and they will ride (it's a drop in the bucket compared to motor vehicle expenditures). Portland has a 10% bicycle mode share already. Bikeways are long-term durable infrastructure with few maintenance costs and a good civic value.
So...what's your solution to the unsustainable trajectory of automobile dependency?
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