Do Not Move to Oregon (Portland: car insurance, credit score, tax rates)

[Dual Citizen CA-OR]

Originally Posted by user_id

Why would this need to be debated?...

You deleted the reason why (and link) from my post.

Did you even look at the data? If you have no problem with 1% of the population controlling over 35% of our nation’s wealth, how about 20% controlling over 85%? Having 80% of Americans fighting amongst ourselves for the remaining 15% of our nation’s wealth does not bode well for our middle class. Are you not aware of the stagnation and/or decline in wages of our middle class? Are you not aware that at the same time the rich have seen their incomes go through the roof? Do you think it’s some kind of freak coincidence?!?

For decades America's children have prospered more than their parents, did you know the next generation will likely be the first to see a decline? Or are you ok with the loss or decline of our middle class?

...As if there should be some maximum allowable income or net worth? What point would that serve?...

No I’m not speaking about maximums allowable incomes, I was thinking more in terms of returning to tax policies that were in effect during better times in our nation’s history. Between 1932 and 1981 the top tax rate varied from 70% to 92%, during which time our middle class rose to levels that were the envy of the world.

But thanks to 30 years of Reaganomics, 30 years of waging war on unions, its been pretty much downhill ever since.

...Anyhow, the wealthy already pay the majority of the taxes. They pay far more into the system then they take out.

In 1940 the CEO to average worker pay ratio was 22%, by 1980 42% and by the year 2000 it soared to a whopping 525%, anyone seeing a pattern here yet?

Sorry but knowing how well the top 20% of Americans have done over the last 30 years, it turns my stomach listening to them whine like little girls over having to pay their fair share. As the old saying goes whoever owns the gold makes the rules. Through their connections and lobbyists the wealthy essentially wage war on the middle class 24/7, it’s only when the ‘little people’ point it out that you’ll hear cry’s of ‘class warfare’.

As this isn’t the thread for it, you can have the last word on the subject.

[Fiddlehead]

Originally Posted by Dual Citizen CA-OR

In 1940 the CEO to average worker pay ratio was 22%, by 1980 42% and by the year 2000 it soared to a whopping 525%, anyone seeing a pattern here yet?

Sorry but knowing how well the top 20% of Americans have done over the last 30 years, it turns my stomach listening to them whine like little girls over having to pay their fair share. As the old saying goes whoever owns the gold makes the rules. Through their connections and lobbyists the wealthy essentially wage war on the middle class 24/7, it’s only when the ‘little people’ point it out that you’ll hear cry’s of ‘class warfare’.

First off, the first sentence looks like that is the amount CEO salaries exceed worker's salaries? That would make sense, not ratios. Please clarify.

I do appreciate the historical perspective in the second paragragh. The wealthy have been prospering while the middle and lower classes have seen their share of the wealth declining for decades. Add in rabid, corporate-funded anti-tax activists like Bill Sizemore, and you have the situation we are in today. It seems only appropriate that in some cases taxes get cut and in other cases they rise, based on actual revenues, forecasts, and reality. This class warfare junk too often is ideological, without the historical perspective needed to make good policy.

[Ultrarunner]

Just had a chance to spend time in Portland and Olympia.

The biggest difference that I experienced driving is that Oregon Drivers were definitely more aggressive than those in Washington and California...

Washington drivers kept it close to the speed limit as did those in Northern CA... Oregon Drivers were routinely passing me by in Oregon... I drive the speed limit within 2 or 3 miles and the difference was glaring...

Didn't have a chance to use any of the bike paths... it rained every day I had the opportunity in Portland and riding in the rain is not my idea of fun.

[northerncalif]

Ultra runner I have to disagree about northern California drivers. I also like to drive the speed limit which is 55 mph or less in my rural area. However, 95% of the drivers drive over 70 mph. I have been run off the road, passed on a double yellow numerous times, flipped off and honked at. I try to pull over when I can but if I pulled over for every car exceeding the speed limit I would never get anywhere. In my area we have car crashes daily because of the driving habits. Everyone always seems to be in a hurry and I wonder if they just don't leave themselves ample time to reach their destinations. However, I was very impressed with Oregon drivers. They stop when I am in a crosswalk instead of swerving around me, they don't tailgate, honk or make rude gestures. They seem to not be as hurried as California drivers. Perhaps I just experienced some grat days driving in Oregon but I do give a "thumbs up" to Oregon

[Ultrarunner]

Originally Posted by northerncalif

Ultra runner I have to disagree about northern California drivers. I also like to drive the speed limit which is 55 mph or less in my rural area. However, 95% of the drivers drive over 70 mph. I have been run off the road, passed on a double yellow numerous times, flipped off and honked at. I try to pull over when I can but if I pulled over for every car exceeding the speed limit I would never get anywhere. In my area we have car crashes daily because of the driving habits. Everyone always seems to be in a hurry and I wonder if they just don't leave themselves ample time to reach their destinations. However, I was very impressed with Oregon drivers. They stop when I am in a crosswalk instead of swerving around me, they don't tailgate, honk or make rude gestures. They seem to not be as hurried as California drivers. Perhaps I just experienced some grat days driving in Oregon but I do give a "thumbs up" to Oregon

I drove home from Portland Sunday afternoon... I can attest I was the only one even driving close to the posted speed limit on I5 heading south in Oregon.

In Northern CA... the only tractor trailer rigs passing had Oregon Plates... all of the tractor trailers with California Plates were driving 55 to 60 in the slow lane... lots had Safeway Logo on their trailers...

Not very scientific... but, my observations after my time in Portland and Olympia.

Also, many from Oregon often mention how much better their roads are... Northern California I5 and Washington I5 are superior in my humble opinion.

[northerncalif]

That's is because the California Truckers know just how much a speeding ticket is in California. Your right if you are driving 70 mph on I-5 you are risking your life, LOL, as everyone else is driving alot faster than that. You should try our rurals routes sometime. Try 70+ on a two lane crooked road with signs that say maximum speed 35mph.

[ExNooYawk]

We've only lived in Oregon for four years.
My observation is that the state needs money. The main source appears to be income tax.
As long as my newly adopted state refuses to incorporate a sales tax into its revenue-raising efforts, it will be encumbent on the residents to pay for increases in state spending.
Lots of people go from California to Seattle for visits, business and other things. They travel through our state for free. They should be asked to pay a sales tax. Until then, expect more prop 66's and 67's.

[Wicked Felina]

Originally Posted by northerncalif

That's is because the California Truckers know just how much a speeding ticket is in California. Your right if you are driving 70 mph on I-5 you are risking your life, LOL, as everyone else is driving alot faster than that. You should try our rurals routes sometime. Try 70+ on a two lane crooked road with signs that say maximum speed 35mph.

Agreed. No offense Ultra, but my experience has been the opposite of your's. In SOCAL, on I-5 I was driving 85+/- mph - the limit is 75. I was literally left in the dust, by truckers and everyone else on the road. This occurred more than once. Nobody in Sacramento seems to have a driver's license, either....

Seattle drivers are nutty. I've never seen so many people decide to turn a narrow shoulder into another freeway lane - and pass people while they're doing it! And they don't look when merging they just swerve onto the freeway. Shocking!

Originally Posted by ExNooYawk

My observation is that the state needs money. []
Lots of people go from California to Seattle for visits, business and other things. They travel through our state for free. They should be asked to pay a sales tax.

Are you suggesting a special tax for all people from out-of-state, or just Californians? Or maybe tolls on the major freeway and over all bridges into Washington? You may be on the right track, but that's a very broad concept.

[Ultrarunner]

By definition... Interstates are toll free... there are a few exceptions where turnpikes and such already existing were incorporated... I think the total is less than 2%...

So, I guess what you are saying is that those traveling on Federally Funded Highways like I5 should pay a tax... in addition to the fuel taxes already paid.

I know this next statement will get some upset...

I no longer buy my fuel in Oregon... 3 years ago, a Oregon required Gasoline Attendant damaged my vehicle... I ALWAYS put in my own gas, check the oil, etc... can't do that in Oregon because it's illegal I grew-up pumping gas and working on cars... thankfully, my car gets 31/32 mpg and a fill-up in Yreka is easily enough to drive to Seattle if I had to.

Can't comment on SoCal drivers... it's been many years since I've been south of Big Sur...

I will go out of my way to buy in Vancouver... just like a lot of Washington residents shop in Oregon...

[user_id]

Originally Posted by Dual Citizen CA-OR

Are you not aware of the stagnation and/or decline in wages of our middle class? Are you not aware that at the same time the rich have seen their incomes go through the roof? Do you think it’s some kind of freak coincidence?!?

Middle-class wages have been stagnate to some degree, but the shift has yet to be particularly dramatic. It has always been the case that a minority of people control the majority of the wealth, that is how capitalism works.

Also, when you talk about how much wealth such and such hold you are talking about net worth not income.

Originally Posted by Dual Citizen CA-OR

did you know the next generation will likely be the first to see a decline?

A generation has to actually work for a greater standard of living, it does not come automatically.

Originally Posted by Dual Citizen CA-OR

Between 1932 and 1981 the top tax rate varied from 70% to 92%, during which time our middle class rose to levels that were the envy of the world.

What reason is there to believe that these higher marginal tax rates resulted in a greater distribution of wealth? A correlation of two variables does not imply causation. Higher marginal taxes just create incentives to not realize as much profit/income. Some businesses/individuals may use this money to instead investment in the real economy, others may simply shelter it.

Originally Posted by Dual Citizen CA-OR

it turns my stomach listening to them whine like little girls over having to pay their fair share.

It turns my stomach when people want to steal from people who have succeed via government force. The top 5% income earners pay approximately 55% of the federal income tax. Even if you look at their total income (around 30% of the total pie), they are paying significantly more tax than everyone else. They are already paying their fair share...and much much more.