Oregon Passage of Taxes on Business and High Income Earners (Portland: health insurance, home)

[davefr]

Originally Posted by Fiddlehead

Hmm..good point. Sad thing is, I suspect the voters would not have passed the measure if it hit everyone.

What they don't realize is it did hit everyone.

Higher costs of doing business = higher prices. Higher cost of doing business = less employees. Fewer employees = lower revenue from state income tax. Higher unemployment = higher costs for unemployment, welfare, other social programs. Tainted business climate = no future job growth.

[Ultrarunner]

I wouldn't say Americans are against all taxes...

My Grandparents and just about all of his contemporaries supported gasoline taxes because they only could be spent on roads... the more gasoline you bought, the more you paid towards the highway system and you had a choice of driving economically or lavishly.

I think the problem comes in when some pay nearly nothing and others pay many more times than that and add to it that some tax money is spent on things never contemplated at the time the tax was passed.

But, you are right... a cornerstone of the founding of this country was taxation.

[user_id]

Originally Posted by Fiddlehead

Hey, nothing against California or Idaho, but the populations there are different,

Right, it must be due to the gigantic wall separately California and Oregon...oh wait. If Oregon and an sense they would try to attract businesses from California, it is much more likely to attract businesses from California than Michigan (are there still businesses there?) or Colorado (which is more business friendly).

Originally Posted by Fiddlehead

Point being, Oregon should figure out a policy that works for its people and their values and priorities. California, Idaho, Washington,etc. should do the same.

Well Oregon is welcome to do that, but Oregon is still going to be competing with other states on tax policy. If businesses and wealth get sick of Oregon policy they will leave.

"The people" often forget who is paying their pay check.

Originally Posted by Fiddlehead

Especially taking sales tax issues into account?

The lack of sales tax really is not a big deal as most areas in Oregon have a business property tax. The point being most of the goods you're likely to pay sales tax on are durable goods that you'll pay business property tax on.

Anyhow, my estimates already included the sales tax differences.

Also, to be frank sales tax is the easiest tax to cheat on. In most cases one just needs to go to amazon. You're suppose to pay use tax, but its really difficult for the state to enforce.

In terms of population explosion....that is not even the issue. The issue is the getting current Oregon residents working! Attacking businesses in this climate just does not seem very smart.

[rhodan653]

Originally Posted by user_id

or Colorado (which is more business friendly).

I think Colorado is a pretty fair comparison for Oregon. What is interesting is that their approach to business, which is much more favorable, has resulted in their unemployment rate consistently being 3% to 4% less than Oregon's on a consistent basis for years, including now. Do you know what that means to the government's fiscal health? It is a double improvement - more tax revenue coming in and less unemployment benefits going out.

Unfortunately many people in Oregon are very insular and never look outside the state to see if their are other concepts of governance that might *gasp* work better than what Oregon is currently doing. Too many people have their head in the sand and just accept that whatever Oregon does it must be for the best...I mean...we are Oregon and WE ARE PROGRESSIVE!! (I guess if you repeat it enough you start to believe it??)

In the end, though, Democracy has spoken and the people that voted for this will deal with the consequences of continued higher unemployment and higher tax burdens and many people are just fine with that (for now). For the rest of us, we can move to Colorado - another great thing about our country.

[davefr]

Originally Posted by rhodan653

I think Colorado is a pretty fair comparison for Oregon. What is interesting is that their approach to business, which is much more favorable, has resulted in their unemployment rate consistently being 3% to 4% less than Oregon's

I believe it was also Colorado that just reduced it's minimum wage which was a smart thing to do.

Oregon's minimum wage surpresses job creation which is what you don't want to do when unemployment rate is double digit and one of the highest in the nation.

However the highest priority for our elected "leaders" is whether supermarkets should use paper or plastic to bag your groceries.

[Vaedrem]

Yes, the progressive (i.e. a tax on the wealthy and rich corporations) is a good thing, is an overwhelming victory. Such taxes should be passed in all states, and corporate personhood should be dissolved. And I'm sure that, actually, businesses that are responsible and are focused on paying all their workers a good wage with benefits--cooperatives, people who actually are in Oregon to live are not going to "leave." Raping local residents, destroying the environment, letting the infrastructure go to rot, poisoning the air, maintaining a low minimum wage and weak labor laws, giving the people access to few, none, or low quality services so that the rich can horde their wealth is only "good" for a certain type of parasitic business; it is extremely bad for society, and thankfully some people aren't looking to go that route in the current crisis. People in other states can pride themselves on their union-busting policies, dirty air, and sweatshop-quality workplaces all they want. In Kansas the minimum wage is only $5 something; that must be great for buisness--why not let people starve and be priced out of their houses everywhere? I'd bet you'd attract more walmarts with that policy.

[Ultrarunner]

Originally Posted by Vaedrem

Yes, the progressive (i.e. a tax on the wealthy and rich corporations) is a good thing, is an overwhelming victory. Such taxes should be passed in all states, and corporate personhood should be dissolved. And I'm sure that, actually, businesses that are responsible and are focused on paying all their workers a good wage with benefits--cooperatives, people who actually are in Oregon to live are not going to "leave." Raping local residents, destroying the environment, letting the infrastructure go to rot, poisoning the air, maintaining a low minimum wage and weak labor laws, giving the people access to few, none, or low quality services so that the rich can horde their wealth is only "good" for a certain type of parasitic business; it is extremely bad for society, and thankfully some people aren't looking to go that route in the current crisis. People in other states can pride themselves on their union-busting policies, dirty air, and sweatshop-quality workplaces all they want. In Kansas the minimum wage is only $5 something; that must be great for buisness--why not let people starve and be priced out of their houses everywhere? I'd bet you'd attract more walmarts with that policy.

A couple of thoughts... anyone raping local residents and destroying the environment should be locked up and the have the key thrown away.

Like most things... Housing that is overpriced by definition will not sell... what person of sound mind would pay over price for anything?

If corporations were to disappear... so would the ability for the average person to have ownership... Corporations answer to their stock holders... even buying one share makes you an owner with the rights and responsibilities that go along with it.

Costco is headquartered in nearby Washington State... is a very large corporations and is favorably thought of in a recent employee survey... Nike Beaverton attracted talent from all over the United States... these are just two examples...

It's fundamental... any activity that is taxed is reduced... increasing taxes will soon reach a point of diminishing returns... and this includes business.

[Leisesturm]

Originally Posted by Ultrarunner

Like most things... Housing that is overpriced by definition will not sell... what person of sound mind would pay over price for anything?

If corporations were to disappear... so would the ability for the average person to have ownership... Corporations answer to their stock holders... even buying one share makes you an owner with the rights and responsibilities that go along with it.

It's fundamental... any activity that is taxed is reduced... increasing taxes will soon reach a point of diminishing returns... and this includes business.

Really? Then why does NYC have an 0.2% vacancy rate? Landlords either look the other way and let 3/4 unrelated adults share rent or demand tax information that shows that you make 3x the rent. Wages have not fundamentally changed since the 1970's. The average 1Bm in NYC in 1970 was $75/mo. Today it is over $1200/mo. Other states differ only in the amounts. The percents of increase over time are the same. Increasingly the laws of supply and demand are being ignored. Supply sets the price and demand either pays up or goes hungry. Supply no longer needs demand because decades of overcharges have left supply with a backlog of wealth and they can wait until the right 'sucker' comes along. Large retailers are immune to the laws of supply and demand because shareholders pump at least as much money in or more than customers do. You can buy their widget, use it or not, return it and get your money back, see you next time, or not, we don't care its the investors that keep this ship afloat. Taxes are a neccessary evil. Accept it. We have not reached the point at which anyone or thing is 'reduced'. If that were true we wouldn't have half the planets billionaires! Continued repetition of a lie does not make it the truth. New York has an enviable tax base. Millions of taxable revenue streams. Billions and billions in tax revenue. Streets are crap. Infrastructure failing. Capacity of social service delivery sub par. Why? I'd like to know. Oregon roads are amazing, don't let anyone tell you otherwise. Getting a license renewed does not take an entire working day. Neither does getting a duplicate social security card. It's not utopia but I daresay a much greater... a MUCH greater portion of the state revenue stream goes to the delivery of services in Oregon than other cities I could name. There is no excuse for lambasting minimum wage earners who voted to increase taxes on 250K earners. The real mistake is in not creating a third tier of assessment level for 1M earners. Here we are in 2010 and an entry level college graduate is going to be offered a salary about what an entery level college graduate was being offered 20 years ago. Does anything that that newly minted B.A. or B.S. need to live life in America cost what it did 20 years ago? No. The compensation of the CEO and Executive branch of the same firm with the 1980's compensation for rank and file will be fully commensurate with 21st Century requirements for the Forbes 500. Tax them. If they complain add spoilsport penalties on top of the base tax. It isn't socialist, its survival, the other 's' word.

H

[user_id]

Originally Posted by Leisesturm

Really? Then why does NYC have an 0.2% vacancy rate?

Easy, it does not. NYC vacancy rate is around 4% now and its increasing, rents are decreasing.

Prices can only stay inflated so long before things break.

Anyhow, placing taxes on business while letting the "average joe" slide sets a very bad sentiment. Many businesses have the option to relocate to a more tax friendly state. Additionally, states do not have that much power to tax wealth. Tax it too much and it will just leave. The wealthy are not tied to one particular location like the average joe.

[Nite Ryder]

Originally Posted by BPLive

I for one am turned on by this !!

I am planning on opening a business in Portland and looking forward to give portlanders jobs. I'll be sure to keep my income lower than 250k and rather pass the wealth to the community with jobs.

Yeah, when you get here you will find out how darn turned on you get. You're from Greece, your butt will really be in a different kind of 'grease'. You start a business in Portland, I'll give you a year before your bankrupt and out of business. You don't know what permit fees, user fees, and misc fees on top of taxes are until you move to this sorry state. I've lived here over 70 years, and I'm feed up with it.