Should We Kill SunRail? Your Votes & Your Opinions Please. (Orlando: living in, store)

[DavieJ89]

Originally Posted by Crane's Rooster

After spending some time on I4 this past weekend and actually paying attention to the road itself, I now realize why it would cost so much to expand I4. It's basically a matter of lack of foresight when it was constructed, although I'm sure the DOT did not anticipate Disney would bring the explosive growth it did. Most of I4 through CFL from Lake Buena Vista to Maitland Blvd is either fully developed or would require massive overhaul of the existing infrastructure. For example, there are many stretches where development is almost backed right onto the travel lanes. Expanding would require the purchase of all the bordering land through eminent domain. It's really just the portion from Lake Buena Vista to Sand Lake that could be widened easily. After that I4 may have pushed it's limits. As you reach OBT it gets really complicated due to the turns in the road and surrounding development. Through downtown the only option for expansion would be to build more elevated lanes on top of Garland and Hughey. Throw on top of that the interchanges would need to be overhauled. It's no wonder doing an expansion of I4 is so much more expensive than building an entirely new road through undeveloped areas like the Wekiva Parkway or even a straight highway in undeveloped areas like I75.

From Lake Buena Vista to just before the OBT exit, there is room to widen. (right by John Young Parkway there is a lot of wide open land to add more lanes)

I-4 going through downtown Orlando from OBT to Amelia reminds me of freeways in LA, tightly packed in, and thee pavement on that section of I-4 looks original, very old and worn out, not much they can do their. And god forbid the Merita bread factory would have to go, I miss the smells driving by there

Seems to me that a good stretch of I-4 could be widened, but only south of downtown to the Osceola line. Downtown may forever be a bottleneck

[Crane's Rooster]

That's probably where the exorbitant price comes from, the southern stretch could be done reasonably, but adding even a single lane from OBT to Maitland blvd would be complicated and pricey. Someone else proposed double decker highways but I can't imagine that would be any cheaper. Than burying it like the big dig would be ridiculously expensive if even possible. You after to remember that in addition to the travel lanes itself the shoulder and medians also have to be certain width and distance from nearby development. All this makes me think, where do they plan on adding those "Lexus Lane" pay lanes for I4? Or do they just plan on converting an existing lane?

[DavieJ89]

Originally Posted by Crane's Rooster

That's probably where the exorbitant price comes from, the southern stretch could be done reasonably, but adding even a single lane from OBT to Maitland blvd would be complicated and pricey. Someone else proposed double decker highways but I can't imagine that would be any cheaper. Than burying it like the big dig would be ridiculously expensive if even possible. You after to remember that in addition to the travel lanes itself the shoulder and medians also have to be certain width and distance from nearby development. All this makes me think, where do they plan on adding those "Lexus Lane" pay lanes for I4? Or do they just plan on converting an existing lane?

From OBT to Maitland could be a tough squeeze but if I remember correctly, it opens up a bit around the Lee Road exit, but Lee Road to Maitland Blvd is only 2 miles if that. I-4 through Osceola and Seminole is pretty open as well they have room for growth once it returns

I dont see the double decker highways happening for I-4, that would cost just as much as it would to widen and it would take FOREVER making commutes THAT much worse. A big dig will never happen, its been a huge clusterf*ck for Boston and I hear it continues to have more and more problems

I dont see them converting an existing lane into a toll lane on I-4. That would make traffic worse as well. I-4 is simply (through downtown) an obsolete highway. It is old, over used and as time goes on its going to get worse IMO SunRail or not

If Im not mistaken Orlando has the worst traffic congestion in the state. Ive read reports (sorry I cannot cite any at the moment, google isnt finding them) that Orlando traffic is worse than South Florida

SunRail will be a good thing, but Orlando needs a whole basket of things to fix the traffic problem or at least ease it. I've given this a lot of thought the past few days here are my suggestions

1. SunRail
2. Encourage more carpooling (maybe local companies or even the city or county can give commuters cash incentives of some kind for carpooling)
3. Increase Lynx service
4. Encourage commuters to use Lynx (to a lot of people there is a stigma to taking the city bus, people are worried others will think they are 'poor' or that their car is broken down, and then there are all the unsavory characters who ride the bus as well, who wants to sit near that smelly homeless guy who's been riding the same bus since 6 am?)

Encouraging more commuters to use the bus to get to and from work could be a HUGE thing for Lynx (increased fare revenues) and it could really reduce traffic. As far as the dregs of society who are on the bus, usually they dont bother anybody, people in other big cities use public transit and just deal with it. I think Lynx should maintain its older buses rather than simply replacing them with newer ones, they need a bigger fleet IMO

If they can get SunRail up and going, encourage both carpooling and commuters to use Lynx, watch the congestion on Orlando roads ease up

Also if they want people to use the bus more, Park and Ride centers should be built at strategic locations around the whole metro, not just Orange County

Ok my rambling is done

[Crane's Rooster]

Davie, as always you and I are on the same page. I wish it was as easy to get others to share our sentiments. To add on to your suggestion I really think Sunrail could and very well may be the catalyst for all the things you mentioned. Each Sunrail station could become a local public transit hub. Not just a place to catch the train, but a place to catch the bus or park for car pooling. If they're already building parking spots at the stations for Sunrail riders, the should factor in extra parking for car pools. Additionally if the stations are going to become de facto Lynxx hubs than they should add extra spots for busriders. I really do Sunrail as the backbone for a new more cohesive transit system for CFL, particularly because it is a community effort. It is not being developed independent of Lynxx but rather in conjunction. Good signs hopefully pointing to success.

[DavieJ89]

Originally Posted by Crane's Rooster

Davie, as always you and I are on the same page. I wish it was as easy to get others to share our sentiments. To add on to your suggestion I really think Sunrail could and very well may be the catalyst for all the things you mentioned. Each Sunrail station could become a local public transit hub. Not just a place to catch the train, but a place to catch the bus or park for car pooling. If they're already building parking spots at the stations for Sunrail riders, the should factor in extra parking for car pools. Additionally if the stations are going to become de facto Lynxx hubs than they should add extra spots for busriders. I really do Sunrail as the backbone for a new more cohesive transit system for CFL, particularly because it is a community effort. It is not being developed independent of Lynxx but rather in conjunction. Good signs hopefully pointing to success.

Good to know we're in agreement

I just thought of this, you know what other situation would improve if more people car pooled and rode sunrail? PARKING! There would be a LOT more available parking spaces downtown

[Crane's Rooster]

Makeover Planned For I-4 In Winter Park - Orlando News Story - WESH Orlando (http://www.wesh.com/news/28907945/detail.html - broken link)

[NJPhilliesPhan]

With this project having only an expected ridership of 2,150 people per day, it will be interesting to see how the Florida taxpayers will maintain this rail system when it is completed.

Rail line a waste of government money - TribToday.com - News, Sports, Jobs, Community Information - Tribune Chronicle - Warren, OH

» Nothing Sunny About Florida

[OrlFlaUsa]

Originally Posted by NJPhilliesPhan

With this project having only an expected ridership of 2,150 people per day, it will be interesting to see how the Florida taxpayers will maintain this rail system when it is completed.

Rail line a waste of government money - TribToday.com - News, Sports, Jobs, Community Information - Tribune Chronicle - Warren, OH

» Nothing Sunny About Florida

Simple. It starts with 2,150 and the next day it gets 2,151 because a lady talks another lady she works with into trying it. Then later on during it's infancy (year 0-4) when it most certainly will run below capacity, companies will start to put jobs in the towers DT since the rail will help create an opportunity to centralize jobs. Meanwhile, transit oriented development will be opening up thus allowing more people to live in higher density along the rail line and thus ridership will increase. If shortsighted initial ridership estimates are what people want to go by, then I give up.

[NJPhilliesPhan]

Originally Posted by OrlFlaUsa

Simple. It starts with 2,150 and the next day it gets 2,151 because a lady talks another lady she works with into trying it. Then later on during it's infancy (year 0-4) when it most certainly will run below capacity, companies will start to put jobs in the towers DT since the rail will help create an opportunity to centralize jobs. Meanwhile, transit oriented development will be opening up thus allowing more people to live in higher density along the rail line and thus ridership will increase. If shortsighted initial ridership estimates are what people want to go by, then I give up.

What makes you think that an expensive train will spark all this growth when Orlando has one of the highest vacancy rates in America. I am all for public transportation, but in a hard economy money must be spent on systems that have a high likelyhood of success.

America's Emptiest Cities - Forbes.com

[OrlFlaUsa]

Originally Posted by NJPhilliesPhan

What makes you think that an expensive train will spark all this growth when Orlando has one of the highest vacancy rates in America. I am all for public transportation, but in a hard economy money must be spent on systems that have a high likelyhood of success.

America's Emptiest Cities - Forbes.com

This is a commuter rail system that parallels I-4, I'm sure there will be no shortage of potential riders. It will best serve suburbs to the far north and south where people drive to their stations and ride into the city center for work. It will take time, but Orlando metro is one of the fastest growing in the US, so I'm sure we'll fill those vacancies you speak of.