High Speed Rail (Tampa, Orlando, Celebration: appointed, rent, house)

[sp2007]

Lets think about who would use it. Will a business man in say Tampa drive his nice car to a park-and -ride in downtown Tampa, pay $20 for a trip to Orlando, get dropped off at either DisneyWorld or the Airport and then hire a taxi to take him to City Hall in downtown Orlando for his meeting?

No.

Will a family of 4 spend ~$80 to travel from Orlando (where they would have to drive to the park and ride at the Airport or DisneyW) to visit, lets say the Tampa area beaches, only to get to the Tampa station and have to pay for a Taxi to get to the beach?

No.

Will someone use it, yes I am sure someone will. But will most commuters give up their independence to spend essentially more time and money to use the HSR? I don't see it.

[IAm_FloridaBorn]

My issue is why build the High Speed rail to the two cities if there is no rail from the stop you get too or other public transit to get you to your destination in that city (ESPECIALLY TAMPA) I mean Everything For Orlando will pretty much be within a 5 mile radius of the HSR line (exception of Downtown Orlando) so It's less of a hassle. In Tampa you may want to go to the beach in Pinellas or Bucsh Gardens which is not close to the proposed line like say Channelside or International plaza is.

I would love to see it get built though I just don't see it going through unless budget clears way for construction to start or better mass transit in both metros, including commuter and light rail.

[Crane's Rooster]

Originally Posted by sp2007

Lets think about who would use it. Will a business man in say Tampa drive his nice car to a park-and -ride in downtown Tampa, pay $20 for a trip to Orlando, get dropped off at either DisneyWorld or the Airport and then hire a taxi to take him to City Hall in downtown Orlando for his meeting?

No.

Will a family of 4 spend ~$80 to travel from Orlando (where they would have to drive to the park and ride at the Airport or DisneyW) to visit, lets say the Tampa area beaches, only to get to the Tampa station and have to pay for a Taxi to get to the beach?

No.

Will someone use it, yes I am sure someone will. But will most commuters give up their independence to spend essentially more time and money to use the HSR? I don't see it.

Actually as someone who does business in both areas I would use it. Granted, I understand it would be much easier for the Orlando to Tampa commute than vice versa. I would see it as a benefit to be able to drive to the Airport station, park and than get out to do my business in DT Tampa. I could see how it could be much more difficult coming from Tampa because you would still need to get DT Orlando but of course that could be remedied through connection with Sunrail. Also understand that as a business owner, if your employees are paid to travel it's actually cheaper. Travel reimbursement rates are currently 57.5 cents/mile. That adds to over $20.

As far as travelers headed to the Bay area beaches. I'm sure if they came up with a way to get the tourists to the beach from the station it could be profitable for whoever comes up with that solution.

HSR will not solve all our problems but neither can we continue along the path that we can constantly expand our highways. Expanding I-4 by two lanes just over a few miles cost BILLIONS. We have to have a more comprehensive plan. Additionally, ALL public transit, including roads, are money losing projects, but these are public services like police, fire and school services. They are meant to keep us safe and increase our quality of life, not turn a profit.

[Pete C]

The main issue is that HSR and SunRail do not, and will not meet up anywhere. They are not going to add another stop on the HSR for SunRail...forget that happening. The two were planned independently and now that the impossible has happened: both projects got approved, they are stuck coming up with a bandaid solution which will probably be a bus linking two stations.

The overall plan is flawed because downtown Orlando was never included in the HSR plan. That would have linked the two cities downtowns, AND provide a transfer to the SunRail. No, instead it goes to the convention center and Disney. You can only add so many stops before the thing is no longer "high speed". It's clear they only had tourists and the convention center goers in mind when they thought this up.

[IAm_FloridaBorn]

Originally Posted by Pete C

The main issue is that HSR and SunRail do not, and will not meet up anywhere. They are not going to add another stop on the HSR for SunRail...forget that happening. The two were planned independently and now that the impossible has happened: both projects got approved, they are stuck coming up with a bandaid solution which will probably be a bus linking two stations.

The overall plan is flawed because downtown Orlando was never included in the HSR plan. That would have linked the two cities downtowns, AND provide a transfer to the SunRail. No, instead it goes to the convention center and Disney. You can only add so many stops before the thing is no longer "high speed". It's clear they only had tourists and the convention center goers in mind when they thought this up.

I thought the South end of OIA was supposed to connect the SunRail and HSR. HSR is not going to OIA anymore?

[sp2007]

Originally Posted by IAm_FloridaBorn

I thought the South end of OIA was supposed to connect the SunRail and HSR. HSR is not going to OIA anymore?

Now that both projects are approved, they WANT them to connect and there are lots of beautiful, fantasy designs out there that show how they CAN connect. But are they going to do it? Who knows, so far, no.

[totsuka]

I would rather have a trolley system like in San Diego. HSR between these two cities seems to be for Disney Company, which is ok if we can tax them or their customers to pay for it.

[MovedfromFL]

The route as it stands now is fatally flawed. It seems like the Feds are handing out money to build a train and who cares if it's right or wrong. We need to think seriously before we go off in the wrong direction here.

Ok so the Feds are practically paying for the entire thing. A no brainer to go ahead, right? Wrong. The devil is in the annual operating costs. How much will this thing cost the state of FL to operate on a yearly basis? (by the way, we currently have a $3.5 BILLION budget deficit that must be closed right now)

From what I have read about HSR, these systems require a lot of upkeep and maintenance. They don't just flip a switch and it's good for awhile. It could turn out to be a bottomless pit, esp if the projected ridership doesn't materialize. I don't see a huge demand for a route that will NOT be able to reach true high speeds anyway. They want a stop down in Lakeland too. It won't resemble anything like a true bullet train. (like the one I rode in Japan) If you want a true high speed train, you need to run it on a route that gives you the distance between stops, and is long enough to make people want to take the train instead of just driving their car.

If we are going to do it, the route should connect Jacksonville - Orlando - Miami. Period. If the money is not there for that route (it is not), we should wait and prioritize.

The fact is the FL budget is in a world of hurt and we have a huge obstacle coming down the line in the form of mandated increased Medicaid rolls (health insurance for the poor). "Obamacare" will require each state to vastly increase the number of enrollees in the Medicaid program, at the state's expense after a certain time. When that happens, FL and other states will see a huge budget busting line item. Medicaid is already bleeding us dry here. Add to that a possible high speed rail boondoggle costing tens of millions per year in unfunded operating costs and you have a very real crisis situation.

I think the Orlando to Tampa route was promoted first because it's shorter and therefore cheaper, and the money is there NOW. This is the wrong approach. We need to evaluate it like a business. Will revenues cover expenses? Scott promises to operate Florida like a business and cut spending, so here is his opportunity to give it a fresh review and see what he thinks.

[DarkWolf]

Well the Acela and few other Amtrak trains pay for themselves , the problem is theres nothing to connect up to once your in Tampa or Orlando.... I think the Feds should kill this project or New Governor should kill it and send it to the Northeast or Cali.

[Crane's Rooster]

I-4 "Lexus Lanes": Toll "Lexus Lanes" look inevitable for Interstate 4 - OrlandoSentinel.com

The cost of adding these lanes is $2.3 Billion dollars over a 21 mile stretch which our own Congressman has stated he will not provide federal funding. $2.3 Billion over a 21 mile stretch, paid by local and state funds, or $2.7 Billion for 84 mile stretch paid for primarily by the Feds. Studies have concluded that both projects would not be self funding.